Ward Words

When I try to go to their web page it just keeps popping up a JavaScript alert that says "??????? ???? ??? Internet Explore?? ???? ????". As far as I'm concerned, the answer to that question is "No, Firefox." The fact that their webpage won't work in Firefox is enough to tell me that they're full of crap.

It works in Firefox. You have to go to the English version of the website - http://english.watv.org/ .- Lucas -

1. Killed only to fulfill prophecy.
	Seeing as the price for our sin was also taken care of in this otherwise needless event, I'm certainly glad they at least bothered even putting it in the Bible.

2. Communion once a year.
	Legalism. I'm not even sure the quote "do this in remembrance" was a command. No matter because I just asked Jesus and he said that my birthday is on the same (low) level of importance as the creation of the universe, no biggie. Once a year may even be overkill.

3. Sunday worship vs. Saturday worship
	More legalism, perhaps. I really oughta look up the definition of that word maybe. Actually, by logic of statement 2 above, doing this on a weekly basis is sinful anyway. By the way, if you're one of those Christians that actually obeys and worships God every day of the week, shame on you. He knows... and He's very Pissed.

4. The 1940's were awesome and also Jesus came back.
	From what I've seen in movies and/or read in the Bible, the entire world is gonna know about this so called "second coming," without any room for doubt. Anyway, nevermind the difference between summer being NEAR and summer being HERE, metaphorically speaking that is.

5. Onyong, the Korean Galilean.
	Since King David ruled for 40 years, this guys Onyong ruled for 37 (and the three that Jesus had back before he needlessly died makes 40). This fulfills the prophecy: "The third time's a charm and it will probably happen in Korea."

6. Here's some other stuff I found on their website. (quotes!)

"Easter has absolutely nothing to do with the resurrection of Jesus [and is actually a day] honoring the pagan goddess, Easter." "God made a woman from the rib taken out of the man, therefore the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head." (i.e. a covering veil) "To use cross as a symbol of church is an abominable thing to participate in the scheme of the devil who put Jesus to death." "The church that celebrates the birth of Christ on December 25 is heretic." They also believe in a female counterpart to God, and that she's living among us. I couldn't really find much about how that came about.

Ten thousand people can't be wrong, right?

Hello, I know of this Cult that you speak on, my husband is in it. Please it friends close your door too these people. My Hhusband has left me and our kids,because I will have no parts of it.My oldest son who is 19 went and he said they it scared the hell out of him. I have been to many churchs of all relgions and I have never seen nothing like this. They have talked my husband into getting out of the Navy, they told him that he had to walk like Jesus did, and he did not walk with the rich.That he walked with the poor so he had to give up all of the things of the world. They do studys at all hours of the day ( my husband has almost went UA because of these studied)they do all kinds of crazy things. They are about too go to Korea too see God, my husband said that he is there setting in a body. And that God is not a sprite that is every where that he is only in Zion, that is only in there church, so it you are in in Zion that you dont know the True God. Also that there Pastor was bastized by God his self at the young age of 5. In the Bible it said that no man will or has ever lived to see GOD.They said that if you dont do the passover that you serve a diffrent God and not of theres.They have a heavenly mother,and they also believe that Jesus was not supose to die that it was a mistake and that is where they get that the man that they pray to is the second messiah, because God or Jesus made a mistake. Now I dont know about you but GOD NEVER FAILS. But Jesus conveniently came back in 1948 to teach the Passover and you can go and see him in Korea too. Please if these people come to your door say thank you and close your door. I have loss my husband, his was my friend and my life to these people. I would not want any one too go through what I have this past year.The man who rums the Church in Korea is one of the riches men in the world. They take your money and have you and want you to live totaly off of them. They kill and destroy families homes and good people. PLEASE FRIENDS CLOSE YOUR DOOR TO THIS CULT. And to that anonymous vistor your are wrong,has your family been broken up,has you lost a part of your life too a heavenly mother, or to a fat guy over in Korea having people hand feed him grapes, has your family went with out so that Zion can live, has your children father stopped going to there basketball games and telling they that he dose not have time for them.Now I know of the holidays and how things have been changed, but some of the things that they speak of are just wrong.But you may belong to the cult and are looking to steal more lifes. No ten thousand people cant be wrong, they are just lost souls and you are your kind just live to kill them. I know that you have hear of JIM JONES,haven't you.

I have been in contact with Katrina, Like her, my 2 oldest kids have been sucked into this group. It's a bunch of crap. Everyone in this church gives 10% of their gross, no questions asked, no financial reports that I know of....check out www.skepticism.net/discussion
look for the link to "second messiah?" There are several of us family members who have been hurt by this church. This place has destroyed my family.

WMS COG is a Cult. They are Looney to say the least. A dead Korean man is the second coming of Christ ? Pretty insane huh ? Well, about hanging out with the poor, hang out with these people, if you ain't poor, you will be. This Church has mighty dollars and could fly in anyone they wanted to, to see "Mother" (whom they by the way also say is God) but they make the Robots pay their own way and then they shake them down again once their at HQ in Korea. She by the way was the Korean Guy's, at the time, very young Piece of Ass. The Korean guy was a Flunky from some other religion like Seventh Day Adventist but he relized how fuckin' gullable people can be. This Church was a way to keep "Mother" with a steady Cash Flow. This entire thing is a SCAM. Stay away from these mind numbed Robots. The reason they go to Korea is so they can teach the door knockers what to answer to whatever question a person may ask of them. Over time, they have developed lists of questions. They show the Robots where to flick to in the Bible, and flick they do, huh ? Show them some Counter-Proof and they'll tell you "That's a Parable" What a steaming Crock of Shit. Join us @ http://www.skepticism.net for further information.

I just encountered them at my work..actually two of the guys I work with!! I am going to be researching this whole thing...Lucas, I agree with what you are saying...they told me they believe that you can only achieve salvation if you are baptized and then "keep the passover" which is once a year...they also told me they dont believe in the rapture, and that Jesus has already come back, and that if you worship on Sundays you are following a pagan ritual started by Constantine!!! I tryed showing them Ephesians where salvation is not merited through your efforts but, instead is a gift from God but, they just wont budge! There is much more to say but, its so frustrating! Also, there are many pictures of Koreans all over the church...in fact, half the church was full of Koreans!

Hi Lucas,
I just read your blog. It seems to me you had a mind to really listen to what these two ladies were saying. You remembered alot of info. They left a lasting impressing on you. the Word of God is very powerful and your spirit must of reconized it.If I were you I would check into the Church. What do you have to loose. Somethings are for some people and somethings aren't. We won't agree on everything. Sounds like the other people who responded to your message have a problem with rules. I heard the Church of God in Co. is growing with all kinds of people not just Koreans. Besides God loves everyone.

It looks like the Church of God has left a lasting impression on your mind dear Diane certainly it is growing with people like you who might have had a personal problem and an easy prey to this cult waiting with hopes to reach heaven least knowing what they are into. Well if that makes you feel good fine then why should you even think of passing comments on this site. Like the others you too maybe one of the chosen ones like they called 144,000 I presume. Yes which God do you speak of Ahnsahnghong? we respect the word of God from the one and only true Bible not any books written by this man. Jesus is the only way. Got it.
If family members get trapped in this false doctrines it is certainly a matter of concern. God indeed loves everyone not when you go astray. He is so merciful and forgiving so even if it is do with Koreans or all kinds of people do not be blinded by false teachings.

By chance, did they tell you that they had $500,000 in a bank account in Nigeria and simply needed $1,000 to ensure your commitment to this endeavour.

I've been tricked by those guys a bunch of times.

I went to church on Saturday with my brother Daniel I was amazed on how he knew scripture when just a 5 months ago he didnt but it wasnt like he was excited about knowing the word he was more how do I say it hypmotized it was the same thing over and over he would jump all over the place. Im not liking this Im a christian and this nothing like this. He gives them money and never pays for his needs. please tell me how to get out of this mess someone help me (God help us)

ACTS 5:38~39
therefore, in the present case I advise you: leave these men alone! Let them go! Fr if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.

ACTS 5:38~39
therefore, in the present case I advise you: leave these men alone! Let them go! Fr if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.
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Dude there are alot of cults that can't be stopped, are they from God too?

Cut it out.

- James

People, there are so many denominations and traditions out there claiming to be the only true church. No one will ever know who or what the true church is. In their own right They teach of true gospel but shade away when their own thoughts are transcribed through the doctorines. When 2nd coming jesus arrives, we all had better be prepared, for he and he alone is the ONLY one allowed to judge us.

How many churches truly follow God's commands? Only 1. How many denominations were there in the Apostolic Church? Only 1. Did they obey all of God's commands? Yes. If you truly search the scriptures you'll see that the Church of God is not a cult, but the true church.

Please do not come to conclusions with the church of God not a cult but the true church.
Do visit the site below. There are people out there who have been with this church or have their family members and share their opinions.
http://www.skepticism.net
If they obey all commands then they break the first commandment i.e worshipping a false prophet and mother Jerusalem.

I have also been confronted with one of these guys... he knows the bible very well. But this guy he prays to.. Ahn sahng hong? I dont buy it. Alot of bad vibes coming from this hong character. And what is this about a "Holy Mother"? Thats a new one. Sounds like a mix of catholic and christian. Craziness. All those reading this beware of these people. Gaurd yourselves. This is not truth. Jesus is Lord and Savior. Not this Ahn sahng hong guy.

Thanks Josh for making these people aware who have been misguided and beleive this ghong to be the second coming Jesus. They preach about Jesus and ask their followers to pray in the name of this man who is dead. Moreover they talk against Mother Mary and have a mother Jerusalem in the church. What a B.S

Its me again... well just reading on "THERE" website it says that they have a holy mother that is in new jerrusalem (which they believe is korea)... That is a bunch of crap.. this man died. If he were God... he would have rose from the grave and ascended into heaven. The bible prophecies tell us that when Jesus comes again, us as christians will ascend into the clouds to meet Him. These guys like to twist the weak and the gullable... But these so called "prophets" really know about the bible. Gaurd your hearts. For those reading this "PLEASE DO NOT FALL FOR THIS HONG GUY". Read the bible for yourself! Jesus is my Lord and Savior. For those hong believers reading this... nice try! Im not that gullable.

Well turns out that this hong follower I have been talking to says that it was prophecied in the bible that this so called "korean savior" would be rejected. I cant find any proof backing up this statement. They say that the second coming messiah would come from the east... how many countries are east of jerrusalem? Alot... its like grabbing some country out of a hat and saying that its the new jerrusalem. This hong follower beats around the bush when it comes to my questions and directs me back to the passover. They say that "Mother" is refered in Rev 21. This is a bunch of crap. They are defenitely twisting the word of God. If we take a closer look... Rev 21 talks about the bride of Christ as in a spiritual aspect. Not a physical. The whole book of Revelations is to be inturrpreted on a spiritual level. These FREAKS with bibles are false prophets and we all know what God has and will do to false prophets. For those mindless hong zombies reading this, mabye you should open your eyes instead of telling us true christians to open our eyes to your lies about Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. He is our God. Oh, and another thing... Easter is a celebration of Jesus's death and resurrection. Sinfull men have twisted it to worshipping a bunny or a roman/greek goddess. Not Christians. Get the facts straight. How dare you say that easter pagen holiday! Sham on you! Again, nice try!

Hello Josh if you visit the www.skepticism.net there has been a good discussion going on related to this church. An eyeopener to all the COG members to help you gullible people out from this cult
God Bless

Good Day all. This is in reference to some of the above comments.

Luke 18:8 However when the Son of Man comes will he find faith on the earth?

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people, and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

If Jesus Christ established salvation 2000 years ago through the blood of the passover covenant, then why does Bible say he must come again and establish it? It must be because salvation was lost at some time. Christ had to come back to restore it...thus the second coming of Christ coming from the east. Truly if we study the scriptures we'll see. Bible says that when Jesus Christ came in the flesh 2000 years ago, he was rejected, by his own people. Because they expected the Messiah to be something more than a carpenters son or a mere man (Jn 10:31)

So if Christ has to come back to the earth to restore salavation he must do it in the flesh, as he did 2000 years ago. So if Christ comes back, will he find faith? No. This is why salvation must be restored.

Rev 3:11 I will write on him the name of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of Heaven, from my God, and I will also write on him my new name. He who has an ear let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Here Bible says that Jesus will have a new name. We know that Jesus is God. When Jesus says I will write on him the name of my God, that is HIS NAME. In the old Test- the name of God was Jehovah. New Test- Jesus Christ, so in this age what will the name of God be? Clearly Bible says Jesus will give a new name. Then what will that name be? The one who fullfills all of the Biblical prophesy concerning God and the second coming. The root of David.

Please feel free to email me sometime for more study. I have open mind and am willing to chat more on Church of God.

God bless you.

David.

I actually went to this church with a friend. Everyone seemed so nice and it made me want to be apart of it. I really didnt understand the actual service but i did notice that everyone knew where to flip in the bible which was strange. After service i was taught two lessons one lesson was sabboth day which i thought could actually be true. But the lesson did seem well rehersed. i really wanted to belong to a church so i decieded to get babtized. While i was getting babtised he said in the name of the father the son and ahnsahnhong and at first i was like what is that but the he said it again and to be honest it scared me. All i could think of was who was this ahnsahnhong.Then i had the bread and wine and they said the name again. I left that night feeling bad like i was worshiping someone else. The next time i brought my friend and her dad is a chaplin who went to like missionary school so she knows alot. She just would not fall for it and said she thinks i shouldnt go back. But you want to hear something that is really weird when i went to the church my second time one part of my left arm was so cold i felt as if someone had ice on that one spot and everythime i talk about that church or Ahnsahnhong, my arm gets cold in that same spot. Even right now. My only concern is that my bestfriend of 4years goes there for about 8 months now and i think she just joined because of her fiance. I dont know if i should show here this stuff becuse i am afraid it will offend her and she may not speak to me, but i am worried about her.

Its a bit strange roomie but you must be made aware you are getting into a cult. Take care . Please visit www.skepticism.com there are good people out there discussing about this church and have their families caught into this cult. I am sure they will be able to help you out
God bless in the name of Jesus

How can you know God? Man can not think like God people go OH WHY GOD WHY have you done this to us!! These disasters and destruction of the people on this earth that is because people have forgotten GOD! Jesus said to the pharises DIDN'T MOSES GIVE YOU THE LAW?
YET NOT ONE OF YOU KEEPS IT!! Why are you trying to kill me?

Can you really sit there and bash on the truth like the pharises did? Why talk this way about Gods covenant?
Jesus established the covenant in marks upper room not one of you keeps it!!! so justify the way you speak to my Lord of Lords and King of Kings. In the last days the News will Go out from ZION the city of Gods appointed feasts and festivals aka THE CHURCH OF GOD!!

Brother Kendall
Church of God world mission society

My dear brother Kendall have you heard of false christ and false prophets. They are like wolf in sheep's clothing. How much do you know about this Father ghong or mother Jerusalem. I would advise you to do some research on your own. Refer to the testimonies of many COG's member. Every scripture is so well rehearsed. In simple words we call it being brainwashed.
Beware of the lake of fire. Worship no other God says the law. These disasters will happen before the second coming of Jesus. But you ghong whom you claim to be Jesus already came in secret and is dead. How come every eye shall see?

No Joshua you are the one that needs to watch what you do. God destroys those who do not do his will as we know in the old testament when the people did not keep the passover there first borns were all killed by plagues. Brain washed into what? Believeing in the passover! than you must not understand Jesus at all you neglect the one who gave you life!! Unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you have no life in you. My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink who ever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life he said that on the passover night only! Do the research mr joshua. THE LORD WILL ESTABLISH ZION IN THE LAST DAYS! Only God would want you to keep the passover on the that night because it is what gives man eternal life as Jesus said.

In simple words why do cults normally use scripture that only suit them. One must try to comprehend the Bible wholly not by flicking pages. As for passover was never abolished and always practiced well enough by the Jews. And this is what Jesus says about laws
Jesus told the story of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:25 - 37 . A gentile ,a Samaritian who knows no nothing about Moses laws ,but he has mercy in his heart and God accept him.
If ghong kept the passover then why must he die because he was baptized by the adventist and decided to start his own business with mother taking over after his death (He died due to blood clot in brain), she has health problems. Can't you see what goes round comes round. This is how God destroys people who squanders others of their hard earned Money. And you weak and gullible people who consider them God what will be your end the lake of fire. God has given me the Holy Book and his spirit to guide me. I do not live in fear that is put into you of end times of disasters, destructions etc . I've entrusted myself in the Lord's care and he shall be the Judge

Hi Kendall and David ,

I have some very good friends they joined the Church of God few months ago. I think people have the right to believe what they want. My friends invite me to join their Bible study .
I think the member of the Church of God are very nice friendly people. They clearly hold an alternative interpretation of the Bible. I found their "way of thinking " very refreshing.

As we go into the detail of the scriptures ,I show them I don't understand their interpretation of the Bible. And there are some scriptures it seems contradict with their teaching. I asked them if they could explain it to me ,but they didn't give me a directly respond. They have a pattern of changing to a different subject or ignore you ,if they couldn't answer your question. When I try to bring them back to the original question , they told me the Bible has double meaning. The sample ,straight forward meaning and the spiritual ,hidden meaning .

They said, "I can't see the hidden meaning ,spiritual meaning if I am not a believer of the Korean Christ Ahn Sahng Hong . Only a believer can see the spiritual ,hidden meaning of the Bible."

They said , "Nobody would understand the message of the Korean Christ Ahn Sahng Hong if people use the normal way to read the Bible.

They said , "People can only see the truth ,after they give up everything and follow the Korean Christ Mr. Ahn Sahng Hong."

They told me , " I need to believe it first, it will make sense to me later ."
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Their "funny logic" do not make any sense to me .

If you ask a person lay down all his doubt ,of course he can believe anything.

If I deny the logic of physics ,I can make myself believe that I can fly.

But that would be insane.


Can I understand the teaching of the Korean Christ Ahn Sahng Hong without losing my mind ?


Thank you very much


Creasy

In simple way of putting is that Jesus Christ kept the passover with his disciples saying that they had eternal life through it and it was to be a lasting ordiance even for generations to come we can see plainly that Generations must be even now how do you disagree with this is beyond my thinking Jesus said him self these people come near to me with thier lips but there worsphip of me is in vain their teachings of men. Matt7:21 states that Not everyone that says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but only he who does the will of my father. They will say to me on that day did we not prophcey in your name and in your name drive out demons and peform many miaricles then i will plainly say away from me you who practice of lawlessness. In other words this means not all beleievers will enter into the kingdom of heaven but only those who do the WILL OF MY FATHER (which is Jesus). The bible even shows the disciples keeping the festival after Jesus death saying let us keep the festival (passover). In the old testament God said that The passover will bring judgement of all the false gods of isreal he also said that this passover is to be kept even for the generations to COME simply you can not know Gods will if you do not humble yourself enough to keep Gods holyest feast! How can you call us false worshippers when you keep christmas easter sunday worship all of these are worships of false gods and are not stated in the bible anywhere yet we keep all the festivals and feasts of God stated in the bible that even Jesus kept!!! Brothers we have the capability now to destroy the whole world in 30 minutes the bible says that God will destroy it by fire in the last day please i beg of you dont only believe in God because pretty much "everyone believes" but remember his words. Remember only Noah and his family was saved during the times that God destroyed the world the first time with water because no one would hear Noah he told the people come to the Ark God is going to destroy this earth with water there disblief altimitly destroyed them.
Creasy i will answer any question you want to ask feel free to ask me. Im not trying to tell you what to believe and you will see everything that i say is in the bible even Christs second comeing.

thank you.

Brother Kendall
Church of God world mission society

Hi Brother Kendall ,

Thank you so much for your reply,

Tell you the truth ,I really enjoy the friendship of the people of Church of God. They are really nice people. I want to join the church ,I love being with them. I want to going to their church, it is mainly because of the people. I have a very hard time understand the teaching of the church , but since nobody in the church were asking any question. I don't want to be the only one who ask question, and making everybody uncomfortable.

But coming here I feel I can be honest and ask question openly.

I am not try to argue or debate , I just want to learn and understand .

#1.The number one thing I don't understand about the Church of God is the Accusation of other churches not remember the teaching of "Blood and Wine".
The other churches do remember the teaching of "Blood and Wine". They just call it the Holy Communion , they do the exact same thing as do you would do to remember the "blood and wine".
You call it the Passover .They call it Holly Communion .

Both Churches use the ceremony of "Blood and Wine" to remember Jesus Christ die for mankind. The only different is ,the Church of God insist the "Blood and Wine" ceremony can only be remember once a year on the Passover day. The Church of God think it is a terrible sin to remember Jesus "Blood and Wine" teaching on any other day.

I read the Bible cover to cover , the Bible didn't say it is forbidden to remember the "Blood and Wine" more than once a year .

Jesus didn't say we must remember the "Blood and Wine" only on Passover day.

I want to know if it is Ahn Sahng Hong's teach people that we should only remember "Blood and Wine" on the Passover day.
Because I couldn't find such a teaching in the Bible.

And I really don't understand why it is a sin if people remember the teaching of "Blood and Wine" more than once a year ?

And where did Bible say we can not remember the teaching of "Blood and Wine" more than once a year ?

#2. The church of God accuses the other churches of "Idol worship ", that is the second thing I don't understand .

I am even more trouble by the Church of God feeding the message of hostility among brother and sister . Encourage members to hate Christians , I think that is something seriously wrong about it.

Spreading the message of hate, isn't it against the teaching of the Bible ?

In the Old Testament , the ten commandment God commanded : You shall have no other God but me. In Moses time ,the Jews were slaves in Egypt for 500 years, they were used to worship the Egyptian's god and the other nation's god like Babylon's god Bale . Therefore God gave them the clear instruction to only worship the Jewish's God and forbid them to worship the idol.

But the Church of God suggested the other churches worship the cross, and teach the brother and sister Christian is idol worshipper. That is rather disingenuous accusation .
Honestly ,where do you get the idea Christian "worship" the cross ?

Isn't it in the ten commandment , God says : Do not give false witness ?
Christian do not "worship" the cross , I don't understand why did the Ahn Sahng Hong Church of God tell people that Christians worship the cross ?

If you accuses people something they didn't do ,isn't that is giving false witness ?

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It is true the Bible says we should not make any symbol out of a false god and worship it. But the cross it a symbol for the REAL God, not the false god. It a like a husband asking his wife not to love other man but only love the husband .And the wife has a picture of her husband in her pocket, what is wrong with that ? It is wrong if the wife has other's man's picture, but just having her own husband picture, that is not a sin. The cross remind us of God's love , remember God's love is not sin .

There are many places in the Bible mention important of the cross.

"For Christ sent me, not to give baptism, but to be a preacher of the good news: not with wise words, for fear that the cross of Christ might be made of no value.

For the word of the cross seems foolish to those who are on the way to destruction; but to us who are on the way to salvation it is the power of God."
1 Corinthians 1:17,18

The Apostle said in 1 Corinthians 1:17,18 that,Paul said the word of the cross is the power of God.

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"For I had made the decision to have knowledge of nothing among you but only of Jesus Christ on the cross."
1 Corinthians 2:2

The Apostle said in 1 Corinthians 2:2 that ,Paul has decide to speak nothing but Christ on the cross.

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Christian remember the teaching of cross ,but Christians don't worship the cross. Why do the Church of God accuses the Christians of idol worship ?

The Bible constantly talk about the teaching of the cross.
God use the cross as His glory and Christ overcome death through the cross.
The Bible described the cross as the great power of God ( 1Corinthians1:18)
The Bible described the cross as the wisdom of God ( 1 Corinthians 1:23)
The Bible described the cross as the glory of God ( Colossians 2 :15 )

The cross reminds people of Christ's salvation .

What is wrong with talking about the teaching of the cross ?

Didn't the Bible speak of many important teaching about the cross ?


Thank you



Creasy

Yes i do believe God made a great triumph over satan through the cross but does this mean we should bow down before a cross and worship God? Just like the people did when God told moses to put the bronze snake around the pole that God said if they look at it they will be healed. After that they worshiped the bronze snake saying that it was the snake that gave life but in reality it was Gods mighty word that gave them life. Instead of worshipping God they worshiped the bronze snake. Now its a shadow and reality of the cross people bow down before the cross and think that it gives life pretty much every christian church has a cross outside and most have one inside too. Our Church does not tell you what to do or what to believe but if we truly have the truth and the others do not how hard will we try to convince some one to worship God only? Of course we will try our hardest to lead all people to Zion which is Gods holy hill or the church bought by Gods blood. No where in the bible will you find "let us go to the baptist church or let us go to the catholic church" but it says Church of God which Jesus established 2000 yrs ago with his blood. After a while Jesus commands were abolished by satan because God said i will hand over the saints for a times times and half a times. Idolatry's true meaning is that you dont follow God in accordance with the way of man. But we should follow God through the covenant that he made with man. One of teachers of the law tested Jesus with this question what is the greatest commanadment? Jesus replied to love God with all your heart and with your strength and all your soul. In 2 kings King hezikiah and king Josiah celebrated the passover and it said that they loved God with all there heart and with all there strength and with all of there soul. Same bible same God! Everything we teach is directly from the bible i was also in another church but there was no truth there i never could understand anything they taught because not everything was in the bible and they told us things without reffering to the bible. How can i teach you the bible without proveing it through the bible? If God was hung with a nuce or shot with a Gun would you adorn it around your neck or put it up to sybolize God in your church? No you wouldn't but because everyone does they think its right. It was the blood shed on the cross and faith in Jesus that gives us eternal life and God gave us it to drink on the passover night. No where does it say holy communion it says Passover. Even God waited until the appointed time at twilight to keep the passover if we can do it at any time Jesus wouldnt have waited and said that he eagerly desired to keep this passover with them. At the appointed time. And i will get back to you about those bible verses later after i find them and read them over.

Brother Kendall
Chruch of God world mission society

well creasy before you join them make sure you know who is father ghong and the mother jerusalem. They sound and taste so good like a topped icing cake.
After all there will be false prophets and false christs in end times, who will create denominations in the church.
May Holy spirit guide you . Have faith in Jesus and no other Gods however hard they try to preach the same set of scriptures over and over again. Its all well rehearsed. Brother Kendal still owes me a reply about the ghong and mother they pray

hey creasy, here is the study about the cross being an idol

Ex 20:4 " you shall not make yourself an idol in the form of "anything" in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below you shall not bow down to them "or" worship them for I the Lord your God am a "jealous" God punishing the children for the sins for the fathers of the third and fourth genereations.

* so through this we can understand God will punish those who bow down or worship anything but God.

Lev 26:1 " do not make idols "or" set up an image "or" a sacred stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the Lord your God.

* so through this we can understand that we should not bow down before "anything" except God.

Jer 10:2-8 this is what the Lord says: "do NOT LEARN the ways of the NATIONS "or" be terrified by signs in the sky though the nations are terrified by them. " for the customs of people are worthless they cut a tree out of the forest and a craftsmen shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammers and nails so it will not totter. Like a scarecrow in a melon patch there idols cannot speak the must be carried because they can not walk. "Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good."

* through this we can understand that God says "do not learn the ways of the nations. God said the customs of peoples are worthless. God says the fasten them with hammers and nails so they do not totter and like a scarcrow in a melon patch there idols cannot speak. so if you think about this ..think of a tetter totter at a park it has to sides and it goes up and down but God says they fasten them so they will not totter. and think about a scarecrow it has its arms streched out like in the shape of a cross.

Det 27:15 "curse is the man who carves an image or cast an idol a thing detestable to the Lord the work of the craftsman's hand and set it up in secret.

please creasy i would like to have a study over the phone i think that it would be easier to understand and then you can also ask me anything you would like. my number is: 704-819-4877 dont be shy please call it is important to me that i can explain these things until you fully understand.

and Joshua we do not rehearse anthing its not a play we just teach exactly from the bible through what Jesus said and did.No one has to believe us we are not forcing it on anyone but this we believe is the truth and we will never teach anything that is not in the bible. and by the way you never got back to me about where it says to celebrate christmas, easter, or sunday worship???
if you have any questions about that i can go to history books and prove there falseness.

Hello , Brother Kendall

You really can answer my question,thank you very much.

Brother Kendall ,I really want to believe the Church of God is the truth.

I want to understand the teaching .

I feel I am very close to the become a member.

Thank you for trying to answer part of my question, I still have some thing I don't understand .

I hope you can make it more clear, thank you for trying to answer .

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Brother Kendall You said :

"We shouldn't bow down before a cross and worship God. "

You quoted Exodus 20:4 God forbid people to make idol and worship Idol.

#1.But the cross was made a symbol of God's power by God , not by men.

God created the idea of the cross as a symbol of His power .

This is the teaching from the Bible. (1 Corinthians 1:17,18)

#2.And Christians do not worship the cross, Christians remember the teaching of the Bible about the cross.

The Bible want people to focus on the teaching of the cross.

Paul said the teaching of the cross is the message of salvation.

Christian remember the cross. But remembering the cross does not mean worship the cross.

#3.In the Old testament ,God does not allow the Jews to make any idol and worship it. But God commanded people to made many "Holy items" ,so people will remember Him. For instant :

"You are to make a plate of the best gold, cutting on it, as on a stamp, these words: HOLY TO THE LORD." 28:37 Exodus

"And in the bag you are to put the Urim and Thummim, so that they may be on Aaron's heart whenever he goes in before the Lord"28:30 Exodus

"And let them make me a sanctuary ,the Ark "25:8 Exodus

God ordered people in great detail to build all kinds of objects for Him, so people can memory Him. It is not unusual for God to ask people to a symbol to remember Him. Please look at 13:9 Exodus ,God want the Jews to put a sign on their hand,a mark on your brow to remember God's law.

"And this will be for a sign to you on your hand and for a mark on your brow, so that the law of the Lord may be in your mouth "13:9 Exodus

Use the cross to remember God is not a sin ,it is a tradition in the Bible .

Because the cross is chosen by God ,and it is approved by God as a symbol to remember Him.

Just like "The Ark" was a men made object ,but " the Ark" was God's idea to built ,and it represent the power of God.

The cross was also a men made object . But it was God's plan that Christ die on the cross. And the cross also represent God's power.
1 Corinthians 1:17,18

Accusing Christians worship the cross not only make the Church of God look strange, it also stop people from joining the Church of God.

Paul said he will not talk about anything but the cross 1 Corinthians 2:2 .

-----------------------------------

Brother Kendall:

I went to the Sabbath service for about six month now .I never heard the brother talks about the message of Jesus die for people's sin. Not only the Church of God is anti-cross but I am wondering if the Church of God is also anti the message of Christ die on the cross ?

A brother told me ,there are 3 different period in the Bible ,the Jehovah God period ,Jesus Christ period and the Holy Spirit period.

The Holy Spirit period is also the Ahn Sahng Hong period , because we are in the Ahn Sahng Hong period therefore the Church of God want people to focus on Ahn Sahng Hong and stop talking about Jesus Christ .

Is it true ? We should stop talking about Jesus Christ .

And focus only on Ahn Sahng Hong ?

----------------------------------

Brother Kendall You said :

"The Jews instead of worshipping God they worshiped the bronze snake. That was a shadow and reality is the cross people bow down before the cross and think that it gives life ."

Wait a minute here brother Kendall . Can I count on your words as representation of The Church of God point of view ? And please be careful with your language.

#1.You made a comparison of Jews worship the snake as to Christians and the cross.

The Jews worship the snakes, for the Bible tells us that.

But Christians worship the cross ,it was simply a false statement .

Christians do not worship the cross.

Just because the Jews worship a bronze snake ,doesn't equal to Christians and the cross .
You need to have prove.

#2.You said ,the Jews is a shadow and Christian are the reality .

You said there is a connection .But the Bible never says there is such a connection .
The Jews worship a bronze snake ,is not equal to Christians to the cross.

The ten commandment says ,You shall not make false witness , the word "witness" means you got to have solid prove for a crime before you make accusation against anyone.

"The Jews is a shadow and Christian are the reality" , that is an illogical random accusation against Christians .You can't randomly accuse people as idol worshiper. You got to have prove. Can you prove your theory from the Bible that "the Jews is a shadow and Christian are the reality" ? Or is it only your personal opinion ?


#3.When you see a person worship "before" a cross ,but you can't prove he is worship "to" a cross , can you ?

We pray and worship in the Church of God . We always have a brother standing in front of the crowd when we worship.

The people are worshiping "before" the brother ,but it doesn't mean people are worshiping "to" the brother , do you understand ?


#4.More important , Christians are singing song of praises to the name of Jesus Christ in the church when they worship God .

Christian are praying in the name of the Jesus Christ in the church when they worship God .

Christians are worshiping in the name of Jesus Christ in the church ,how can you accuses them of worshiping the cross?

-------------------------------------
to be continue..

Brother Kendall You said :

"After a while Jesus commands were abolished by Satan."

But Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 , the Church can not be destroy by power of Satan.

" That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. " Matthew 16:18

What do you mean by Satan abolished Jesus command ?

Where do you get that idea , is it Ahn Sahng Hong teach people that Satan abolished Jesus command ?

Are you sure it is from the Bible ?

And how do you explain Matthew 16:18 ?

because God said I will hand over the saints for a times and half a times.

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Brother Kendall You said :

"God gave us it to drink on the Passover night. No where does it say holy communion it says Passover."

Actually that is not true.
In 1 Corinthians 11:20 ,the Bible called Jesus "Blood and Wine" :
"the Lord's supper " ,
And in 1 Corinthians 11:33 the Bible called it :
" the Holy meal of the Lord"

The Bible didn't call it the "New Passover".
The Bible call it "the Lords supper " ," the Holy meal of the Lord"

" Communion" is actually a fancy word for "Supper" , so "Holy Communion" is really mean "Holy Supper" or " the Lords Supper "
--------------------------------
Brother Kendall You said :

"Even Jesus waited until the appointed time at twilight to keep the Passover."

Talk abut Shadow and reality , the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

#1.Isn't the Passover was the shadow , the reality is the Jesus "Blood and wine" on the Lords Supper ?

Jesus waited until the Passover because He need to scarify His life ,like the lamb of the Passover. Jesus need to be the Passover lamb to fulfill the prophecy.

There is a reason that Jesus need to wait until the Passover to scarify His life, but why can people allow to remember God's love more often ? There is no reason to restrict people to remember Christ die for us only once a year . I could not find such teaching in the Bible.

#2.John the Baptist was prepare the way for Jesus ,when Jesus came already .People should not keep thinking about John the Baptist but focus on Jesus .

The same case for Passover , The Passover was only there as a shadow , to prepare the way for the reality : Jesus "Blood and wine" .

When we already have the reality, Jesus "Blood and wine", we should stop thinking about the shadow, the " Passover" .

Shouldn't we only focus on the new covenant Jesus "Blood and wine", and not focus the shadow the " Passover" ?

----------------------------------
Brother Kendall You said :

"The Church of God does not tell you what to do or what to believe."

But I am a good friend with a brother he gives speeches every Saturday ,he also goes to the street corner o preach once or twice a week.

He shows me all his material are provided by the Church of God . He has show me the Church of God instruction manual .The booklet that he used it has many chapters inside and it has many different fine points ,many detail instruction in what to say to people and how to response to people question.

My friend he used the Church of God's booklet word for word. He follow the Church of God instruction exactly as described in the training manual . The instruction and training from the Church of God really made him a pretty good speaker. One time , there were another brother came to visit us from another States. His preaching style is exact copy the same way as my friend did. If I close my and listen ,I would not know the different . And sometime I goes on the net for the 8:00 p.m. cyber service .And all the brother talk and speak exactly the same way. They must received the same instruction or training from the main Church.

I am wondering , what do you mean when you say:" The Church of God does not tell people what to do or what to believe." ?

May be the Church of God from your country is different than the one we have in America.

Because The Church of God here, do tell people in great details of what they should do and what they should believe .

---------------------------------------------------

I feel I want to join the Church ,but the thing that I do not understand is keeping me from going forward. I feel I am very close to the become a member.

It will great if you can satisfy my doubt point by point. If my question was not answered directly ,my doubt will not go away.

Thank you very much

Creasy

Creasy i see your points and i would like to discuss it with you if you could please call me my number is
704- 819-4877 it would be so much easier to talk to you this way

Thank you

The thing is the Creasy is that there really is no profound truth in any other churchs other than the Church of God that even i have found every one dis owns God's teachings because they think its ok not to follow it fully that they can do it however they want. Christian means "Christ like" does it not? So if God commanded us to celebrate to Sabbath and also Jesus kept the sabbath then why dont people do it? That is because they do not belong to God.

CAll ME on the phone Creasy

Hello Brother Kendall ,

I am very grateful for your offer ,I will think about if I should call you .

But thank you for your generosity ,I really appreciate your help.

Creasy

But I am worry calling you directly might actually not helping me to better understand the teaching of the Church of God. Because I think better with something in front of me.

If you print your words on this site it give time to think ,mentally I can pause and go back to it. It would help me a lot, and I think it would also be a great service to all the people who is interested in joining the Church of God.

to be continue...

I am very close to the people of the Church of God ,and it is very difficult to ask them any question. They always quote Mr. Kim Joo Cheol from the Korean HQ.

Mr. Kim has a famous line:

"Those who reject Gods truth deserve Gods judgment. And they will never escape God punishment in HELL"

It make me very uncomfortable about asking question. There is a culture in the Church of God, they are taught to hate Christians , if I openly disagrees with their teaching ,I am afraid they will hate me too. I do not want my friends from the Church to turn against me ,but that is nothing I can do.

Sometimes when I have some teaching I don't understand , I would just keep it to myself. There is another culture in the Church that they do not like people having "little faith ". They expect you to believe and not having any doubt.

I have seen a new comer came to join the Bible study ,he ask a question about the Bible reference of "People were angels" teaching . The Church member immediately gave him a nasty look, like he was a dirty rat.

I am already good friends with the people of the Church of God. I want to be nice to them. But I have a feeling that the people in the Church of God want to use their "friendliness" to subtly discourage me to ask question .

It is hard to described ,it is almost like they are saying ," If you want to be treated like a family ,you better accept the teaching and not ask any question. Otherwise you are a Evildoer "

As soon as I became friends with the people of the Church of God ,I felt the tension immediately. Even they would tell you ,the Church welcome question .But when you bring up a question ,and you are not satisfy with the answer they give you .They will say things like this:

" Why do you hate God ? ",

" Why do you follow the false teaching ? " ,

" If you do not accept the truth ,you are not my brother ."

That was not the answer I was expecting .

Just reading the expression on the long faces and their body language ,I know they really don't want to answer any of my questions .

And I don't want to ask them any question any more.

Every time I try to have a serious discussion with the people of the Church of God , instead of getting an answer they will give me this "Hush puppy eye look " or the "Evil eye look" .

They just want me to join them, and threaten to give me a cold shoulder , "an isolation treatment" if I don't stop asking question.

They are playing with my emotion, they are playing "Mind Game" with me. I know they are taught to response to people's emotion, I have seen their training manual. I don't blame them ,because they thought they are helping me.

But it is really strange if I ask a question ,they will look at me like I just did something bad. But this is exactly what they want me to feel ,so I will not ask anymore question.

But I rather they answer my question directly ,instead of playing this "emotion mind game" with me.

-----------------------------

I just want to understand the teaching ,and I do not want people to make me feel bad about asking question.

Brother Kendall if you are not comfortable reply in this site ,can you recommend someone who can answer my question here ?

Thank you


Creasy

We are taught through the bible not to mix ourselves to often with the spiritual dead. They bring around curseing and blaphmies. Jesus said for us not to mix our selves in with the spiritual Babolynians because God is a jealous God and you can provoke his anger quickly he does not mess around with his commandments. As we can see in the old testament people were even put to death through stoning for working on the sabbath. Just because Jesus was nice does not mean he does not take his commands strongly as we know when he yelled at the pharrises for keeping people out of the kingdom of heaven by not following Gods commands. The Church of God is strict with the teachings and do not except anything that is not plainly written in the bible. Why would we listen to a wolf in sheeps clothing that brings gentle herises that will ultimately destroy us in Gods firece anger in the last day? It so simple to understand yet people have there spiritual eyes closed precieve everyone is false that there is no way christ could come again. There are two studies that opened my eyes that allowed me to know that the second comeing christ has come is "The root of david" and "what the 7 thunders spoke." The lamb the Root of David is the only one that could understand the parables and release the truth that was hidden during the bibical dark ages. Only he can establish Zion or also known as The Chruch of God.


Creasy do yo have AIM or MSN or Yahoo IM? If you do let me know your screen name so i can talk to you.

thanks for listening Creasy

Matt 7:21 Not everyone one that says lord lord will enter the kingdom of heaven only those who do the will of the father who is in heaven.

In the english standard verison and some king james versions it says that Jesus said "those who practice lawlessness will not enter the kingdom"

Jesus said this to the pharises and sudecces "Hasn't moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps it!"

So how can sunday worship, Christmas and easter please God it cannot because it is not Gods will it is false god worship and foolishness.

Hey everyone

I got envolved with the church of God about a year ago and so far its been the best thing in my life before i had been taught the truth ..i wanted to be saved so bad i was catholic then babtist and in neither of those chruches did i find truth but when i met someone who taught me the truth i laughed because i thought it was a joke actually it was a really good friend of mine who tryed to teach me i would always try and pull him away and talk to him about leaving the church and to stop this nonsense.....but one day i finally decided to listen and everything that was taught to me was true...maybe not 100% clear but much more clear then any other church...and i decided to be batized about 4 months into learning...and all you people exagarate this church so much...these people have been the nicest most loving people i have ever met....and when i went to all the other false churches I felt like a stranger... they are very serious about the truth yes. because they know it is the truth and just as you are very strong in what you believe...dont tell me how these people are because i am these people .. just as everyone elese does i go out and preach and you know what i never force anybody to believe anything but i teach them what i know and try my best to explain it and if they decide to join the thats wonderful but if not i move on. and yea there is a thing called a sermon book that is givin to you to show how to explain all the truth but it is just bible verses to show where they are in the bibe ..it definatally does not show how to anwser someone back...but alot of us teach the same because thats the way it should be done and the book shows us the best way to teach people exactly through the bible without the book it would be harder because we would have to sit there and look thru the whole bible and write down all the spots we see the verses instead they give us a book showing where all the verses are and if nobody believes they can look for themselves its just bible versus and then an explanation of what it means thats it. I know its very hard for people to let go of names also but think about the people who worshiped Jehovah when he came to the earth his new name was Jesus and when he died then people had to pray in his name its not the name that matters..its just a name and God even states in Rom:9 christ came once and he will come again a second time but not to bear sin but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for me ... honestly do you think God is gonna pop out of the sky and say hey everyone Im God ...no God does not work that way ..and as you know christ means God in the flesh and it says clearly Christ will come again. in Isa. it says "I will summon up a bird of prey from a far off land in the east a man to fufill my purpose. and if you know the second comming came from the farthest east from the continent..he came from south korea. and someone also said the church is almost all korean well obviouslly if Father came as a korean man the second time its much easier for people who are of that nature to believe but God as you know Loves everyone black,spanish,asain,korean,white etc..it does not matter to him but God thinks diffrently and would come as someone most people whouldent expect think about how Jesus came He is God yet he did not live in rich house ..he came and lived off of barely anything...Jesus works in ways we would not expect. also the church is very mixed there is all diffrent kinds of people white and black and spanish its not just korean whoever comes to God comes to God no matter what race you are God is not raciest. honestly but for you to sit here and put down this church as if it is a place where people brainwash people and do all this crazy stuff you talk of....... your making it up in your head because believe me i am not brainwashed ...I gave the church a chance and i found truth in it but not because of what the people said but because of what they showed me exactly in the bible.and O there was also a story i herd about how the catholic preist had sex with a young boy..that is descusting but I would never be like "o these cathlc people are horrible they all try and make you believe this nonesense and then they do bad things to people"...No i wouldent and that wouldent be right. But i was catholic at one time but like i said i havent found any truth in it and i eventually seen all these things that they do that they think are christ like ..but they are actually doing it all opposite. and some of the people are very nice but they are tricked in ways they dont even know. They worship Idols {cross} and God pasifcally states not to ..to only Worship him think about what the cross is it was just an object man shaped into a cross and killed Jesus on. and the bible stated not to add anything to it. yet people celebrate chrismas and easter and all these holidays which are no where in the bible. Yet our church is the only church that keeps the feast of tabernacles and the Feast of unleavened bread etc. all which our stated directly in the bible nobody could actually deny that. They can defintially come up with good excuses because they think this is some big scary cult we pull people into..we are not big mean monsters we preach from the bible and sometimes its fustrating for us to know so much truth and explain it but yet people throw a millon excuses because they dont wanna leave their customs which are man made because everyone else in the world does it ..they think it is right.

Sister Ashley
Church of God world mission society

By the way if your gonna say his name say it right its not ghong ...its ahn sahng hong

thankyou

Ashley you are another brainwashed cult You people are constantly attacking the catholic church. Is that what you go round preaching creating hatred. You talk of priest having sex then I ask what was ghong's relationship with the mother? Why do you people refuse to speak about them. Because the real truth is hidden from you. Please do further research before you worship satan. Oh yes the church is very good for you how many free meals and smiles & hugs did you receive to be lured into this load of hogwash.
And now I tell you solemnly
Matt 7:21 Not everyone one that says lord lord will enter the kingdom of heaven.
I can imagine what will be your state and reaction once you know the truth my dear dumb robot.
Praying for your poor souls who have been misled into this bullshit.

Joshua
"If you swear you are already condemed"

So why do you ignore the bible that you so believe in? The catholic church said it was ok to worship images and during the tribulation 70 million people were killed by the catholics and the roman army! They changed Gods set times and laws so why dont you do some research buddy. So next time you come at us think before you act.

Joshua ,

With all due respect ,can you say something productive ?

It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

I don't care for your harsh language. Please be considerate.

thank you

Creasy

Hi Ashley ,

I am so glad to see your post ,I felt like I know you . Because your experience is so close to mine.

I have been going to the Church of God Saturday worship for about 6 month now, I agree with you 100% that the people I met in the church of God are definitely the nicest people I know. When I was attending other churches I was often being treated like a stranger .

I am happy you have such a positive experience about the Church of God. I am thinking about joining myself. Seeing your story give me a lot encouragement. I really appreciate it you are sharing your story.

Joining a Church is a important decision for me. By joining a church I am identify myself with its teaching. I can't join a church if I am not sure about its teaching .If I join the church I will put myself behind it 100% . Accepting a religion it is long term commitment .I need to be careful and study all the finer point before I sign my name on the contract. I can't plunge into the decision without thinking about it.

---------------------------------------------------
About your experience in the Church of God, I really want to ask you ,when you say
after you listen to your friend talk the church of god ,you said ,"Everything he said was true." What do you mean by that ?

What exactly did he tell you that make you think it was true ?

I was studying the teaching of the Church of God , I found many teaching from the Church of God just doesn't add up to the Bible.

When I asked them to explain it to me ,they couldn't give me a very good answer . And they want me to accept the answer they offer me. But I am not satisfy with their answer . I don't know what to do ?


Thank you



Creasy

god bless you brother. what questions didn't get answered? maybe i can help

Thats good im glad to know that..
I mean I struggled a whole lot too before i could understand everything but once it became so clear to me i relized it was the truth. and when my friend taught me he went thru certain studies that showed me how false the other churches reallly were. 1st he taught me about how the idols. It shows where god says many times not to worhhip ANYTHING but him. not the cross not anything but him. It says how our idols cannot speak but have to be carried and how its like a scarcrow in the melon patch. then it clicked to me people carry crosses around there neck and if u think about the shape of a scarcrow its the exact shape of a cross. and that showed me how almost every church that believes jesus has a cross yet it confuses me because they dont see it. and then he taught me about how God says in rev:22 not to add anything to the bible. yet we celebrate , christmas and easter etc. yet its not in the bible so therefor it would be adding because God does not say to keep any of those traditions and if u look in any history book it shows how it was a man made holiday. and God also says not to follow the ways of the nation...yet i see almost eveyone keeping these false traditions yet again they dont see it. pshh trust me i use to love christmas dont ask me why alls i knew was that i got free presents so what the heck. but when i relized how much God did not like mans traditions i relized those gifts ment nothing and they hurt God. yet people think how does it hurt God how can we giving presents hurt God. God thinks diffrently then we do and to him its celebrating false gods. So it does not really matter what we think if we want to obey God. but after that study i relized that well if almost every church that belives in jesus does this then where is the truth. Well then he showed me all of Gods feast that God kept with his disiples and he told me how his church kept it and they also keep the sabbath day and the passover. and i was still confused because i knew about the 2nd comming before studing this whole truth. and it was hard to concept that God came back as a Korean man and that there was a mother and she took over after he died. I always had that in the back of my mind and i did not fully concept it. and we should not know about the 2nd comming and mother till the very last study because...as you see even though we see all the truth in the church. knowingabout the second comming to early into the study that stops us from going further in understanding. But when my friend told me about how it says in the bible i will come again a second time not to bear sin but to bring salvation. then it says i will bring a man from the the furthest contenet. he will come from the east. and its a known fact that korea is the furthest contenet and is also in the east. and when Father came he established the passover and wrote many books. No regular man can concept all of that. Because before father came everyone who is in the truth now was not in the truth and wouldent be in this truth. If he never taught about everthing we know about idols and saturday being real worship and expecially establishing the passover to show u how it is the only way to have eternal life. God would not come for no reason why would he want to leave his thrown in Heaven. But he did it for us because we forgot about the passover in time it eventually came unknown that we had to do it because people forgot. So God had to come in flesh again for us to have eternal life so that we could remember all of his teachings. I know its so confusing but Keep trying to learn and ask diffrent people in the truth to explain the things you dont understand maby someone who teaches you will click to you. hopefully you come to understand and one day are able to join us because its wonderful to have new brothers and sisters but i also respect that fact that you say you want to understand fully and not just jump into beliveing anything theres sooo many churches out there and there is only one true one and hopefully you see which one is the truth

God bless you <3
sister ashley

Kendall -
You said:
"The Church of God is strict with the teachings and do not except anything that is not plainly written in the bible."

Do you perform animal sacrifices?
What exactly would someone have to do to join your church?

To Rev and Sister Ashley ,

Thank you for being so kind,

I have a lot of questions about my faith to the Church of God .

It boil down to two category of questions.

Its teaching ,and believing.

----------------------------------

#1.To the organization of the Church of God:

What standard do the Church of God use to interpret the Bible ?

#2. To the people who believe the Church of God:

How do you keep the balance between faith and reason ?

Thank you


Creasy

I have another question for nice people of the Church of God.

I went to the Sabbath service for six month now .I never heard the brother talks about Jesus die for people's sin. Not once.

A brother told me ,there are 3 different period in the Bible ,the Jehovah God period ,Jesus Christ period and the Holy Spirit period.

The Holy Spirit period is also the Ahn Sahng Hong period , because we are in the Ahn Sahng Hong period therefore the Church of God teach people to focus on Ahn Sahng Hong .

-------------------------

Is it true because we are in the Ahn Sahng Hong's period, we should only focus on Ahn Sahng Hong and stop talking about Jesus Christ ?

Can anyone out there show me the way.

Thank you


Creasy

Hi Ashley ,

I am going out with a girl she is a member if the Church of God.

In the beginning I didn't know our relationship would come this far.

But right now we are very seriously commit to each other, and our different religious belief has become a major problem to our relationship.

I like the people of the Church of God ,but I do not understand their teaching.

(May be I should say ,its hard to accept their teaching .But I want to learn how other people accept it and may be I can follow their foot-steps. )

I want us to go to the same church.

I want learn about Ahn Sahng Hong because my girlfriend goes to their church.

---------------------------------------------------

Listen to your story had really help me a lot.

Thank you for sharing your experience .

I want to know how do you over come your doubt ?

You said :Once it became" so clear" to me , I realized it was the truth.

What is the key that make the teaching become " clear " to you ?

Is it when your friend told you about the " falsehood "of other churches , everything became " clear " to you ?
------------------------------------------------------------

I have been doing some study about " Christian worship the cross " .

Tell you the truth ,I can't found any creditable prove to support the accusation that "Christian worship the cross."

If the Church of God want me to believe Christian really worship idol .
I hope they can give me some evidence to back up their accusation.
I hope they can provide me with some prove , because I can't found any.

--------------------------
Ashley , you used to go to Christian churches, right ? I want you to think if you can remember, anyone from the Christina church ever taught you to worship the cross ?

I went to Christian churches for years ,I was never taught to worship the cross .

I have never seen anyone in a Christian church worship the cross.

And I have never heard anyone in a Christian church ever talk about worship the cross.

I didn't even know what is "cross worship". I learned about that from the Church Of God.

Christian simply do not worship the cross. And I don't think it is right that Church of God telling people "Christian worship the cross."


Because that's not true. And I don't know how to convinced myself to believe the teaching of the Church of God.

--------------------------------------------

I want to hear more story of how people become a believer of this faith. If I do as they do ,may be I can believe too.

Thank you very much

Creasy

Creasy

The thing with the Cross is that God said not to bow down before anything but him and worship. The cross is a tool that killed Jesus. Why adorn it and bow down before it and worship Jesus thats what most christians do now. If God was killed by a gun would you put a gun in your chruch? There is no dishonor in not haveing the cross people make it that is a bad thing to not have the cross. We do not need the cross we only need God. That is what our chruch tries to get accross.
People are unknowingly worshipping the cross because there eyes are not spiritualy opened. People even over look the fact that the Catholic Church use to kill people that kept Gods commands even if you ask the priest they will tell you that they use to kill people but, not anymore. The people are not bad in human eyes because they are nice and alot of them truly love God, but they do not keep Gods commands they only live on faith and in Simon he wrote. Without deeds faith is dead same with deeds without faith. Seeing how all the other chruches were doing there worship in all different ways and each had there own explantion of the reason why the do what they do yet I can't see it thru the bible. Do you see Christmas in the bible. No, so why do we do it? Do you see the feast of tabernacles in the bible? Yes. Do you see easter in the bible? No. Do you see Feast of Unleavend bread in the bible? Yes. All of what our church does is yes and is in the bible and Jesus did these things too. All of the no's are done by mostly all the other chruches and they are no where in the bible. And God never mentioned them or have celebrated them. So answer me this, Why should i celebrate any of those? Never the less go to a Church who celebrates them. Unless some one shows me in the bible to do it i will not follow that church. People can make it look so good to your eyes and make it feel loveing but even the bible says that satan uses love and prances around like a child of light secretly destroying peoples souls. So obviously all those chruches who celebrate those false holidays are wrong. "Do not follow the ways of the nations!" Compare how many churches do those things compared to the Church of God. We are the only ones that follow Gods absoulte commands. We do not try to put other churches down because we think that we are better then them. We are not better than anybody else we are all the same no more no less. But in Gods eyes He only sees the people who follow everything he says not only bits and peices of what he says. You can not prove us wrong in any way you need to get over this fear of thinking your betreaying God because you are not but, your fear is stopping you from seeing the truth. Please brother go to the Church tuesday and ask the people to go over the passover and the tree of life studies. Over and over again until you grasp it. Brother keep the passover it will open your eyes to the truth you will see it in the bible i would give my own life to see you be baptized and come to God. As the bible says "what is better than Laying down your life for your brother"
I really hope you really find that our Church is the true Church of God. But no one can force you. You have to see it for your self. Even i did not fully see and believe until i kept the passover.


Brother Kendall
Church of God world mission society

hey creasy

No we should definitally not stop talking about Jesus because he is our God. But think of it this way before Jesus came people were preying to Jehovah..then when Jesus came and died on the cross People would now prey in Jesus's name not Jehovah even though Jehovah is our God we tend to talk about Jesus more than we talk about Jehovah. Same thing with the 2nd comming christ Ahn Sahng Hong. God had to come again to establish the passover because people forgot about it therefore he came in a newname so therefore of course we are going to be more foucused on the new name because we already know what Jesus has done for us. Jehovah,Jesus, and christ Ahn Sahng Hong are all the same the Father Jehovah The son Jesus and the holy spirit? christ Ahn Sahng Hong all the same God with a diffrent name . also when Jesus died on the cross that did not take away all our sins Jesus came in the flesh to establish the new Covenat.... the old covanet was before Jesus came.... the time of Jehovah when people had to sacrifice the lamb then put the blood on there door. since God was in Heaven God chose the Lamb to symbolize him and when people slottered the lamb it showed how the people partook in sheding his blood. But when Jesus came in the flesh Instead he sacrifised himself. and on the passover night {the night before he was cursified} He told his disibles to take the bread and he said it symbolised his body and then he told them to drink the cup which symbolized his blood and he told them that this was the new covanet which is poured out for you for forgivness of sin. and he even says unnless you eat my flsh and drink my blood you have no life in you but whoeever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life. and Jesus also said to do this in remberance of for GENERATIONS to come so even now because generations mean forever and ever God does not go back on his words if he says for generations to come he means even now but people think because it was so long ago that we dont have to do that anymore but Jesus never told us that it was only for that day in age he wouldent say something he didnt mean. Jesus shed his blood on the cross for us to partake in the passover in drinking his blood and eating his flesh which was sacrifised on the cross. snd we remember his sacrifise through the passover. well I hope that helps you a little Just keep going Through the studies. Its Hard I undersatnd expecially because now Gad has a name all the sudden that we never new of and i know how you feel you feel like if you prey in Fathers name you are forgetting Jesus but dont think of it that way. Its just a name and i think if you read some of Fathers books he wrote it will help.

God bless you if you have anymore questions feel free to ask im always here for you fell free

Sister Ashley <3

Hello Brother Kendall ,

How are you ,

I am really moved to hear you say "you will give your life to see me baptized."

I really appreciate you think of me.
----------------------------------

You ask me about why Christian celebrate the birth of Jesus.

Brother Kendall ,You said :
The Bible didn't ask people to do it ,so why are we doing it.

I gave it some thought , I guess my answer is, because it is a good idea !

Please look at Luke 12:3, a woman named Mary, who is a follower of Jesus.
The Bible said she bring a very expensive bottle of perfumed oil to Jesus ,and pour it over Jesus feet, and Mary use her hair to rub and wipe Jesus feet.

The Bible didn't say Jesus ask her to do it . Nobody ask her to do it.

Mary did it because she think it is a nice thing to do for Jesus .

Mary did it out of the love her has for Jesus.

Mary just go ahead and did it , and Jesus like it .

--------------------------------------

The Bible didn't gave us a exact day of when Jesus were born . Some people choose a day to remember the birth of our Lord Jesus .

Just like Mary pour oil to Jesus feet ,nobody ask us to do it . But it is a nice thing to do for God . Christians remember the birth of Christ , they did it out of the love they have for Jesus.

The Bible says " Love your God with all your heart", think of new way to show our love to God is part of " Love our God with all our heart".

Christians are trying to remember the birth of our Savior Lord Jesus Christ, and that is not a negative thing.

Please do not see it as a negative thing.

------------

My girlfriend told me ,in Korea the Church of God has a huge celebration each year to remember the birthday of Ahn Sahng Hong. I have seen the video ,it was very exciting.

If is it a good thing to remember the birth of the Korean Christ ,

Why it is a bad thing to remember the birth of the Jewish Christ ?

I really don't understand ?

-----------------------------

Do you think it is OK to celebrate the birth of Ahn Sahng Hong ?

Or is it also against the teaching of the bible too ?

Thank you very much



Creasy

Creasy,

The difference between the birth of Christ Ahn Sahng Hong is that it is not false worship. If you look in history about the day Dec. 25th it is the birth date of a false god named saturntrila or other wise known as "sun-god" it was a man made holiday not holiday of God that is why it is not allowed in our Church to celebrate it. The sun god worship was mostly created by roman emperor constantine he said that all the people are to worship the sun-god's birth on Dec 25th. The bible says not to add our own words or teachings to it or subtract Gods teachings only do Gods will. So we find it important to stress the passover because Jesus said it was the "The new Covenant" and in Romans chp 9 it says "to keep The new covenant that God has commanded us to keep" if all the christians were doing good in Gods eyes there would be no reason for a 2nd coming.


Creasy i mean what i say about i will lay my life down for you because i know God will be pleased by it. Don't let these blaphmers of God and his commandments get to you just have firm faith in God and his great and wonderous deeds. Amen

Brother Kendall,

You got a good point ,I agree with you on the point that the early Christian should have seperate themselve from the false god festival.

However ,if today Christian nolonger has the idea of the false god in their mind . They just remember the birth of Christ. Would it be OK to just focus on remembering the birth of Christ?
By the way most church would remember the birth of Christ on the whole month of Dec. and not just the 25th.

Most Christian don't even go back to church on 25th Dec. anyway. I was reading the news last year, most churches in America are close on Christmas day becasue people usually spent time with their family on the Christmas morning .

-----------------

By the way ,since God is the creator.
Everyday is God's day ,we can remember Him everyday or anyday. What different does it made ?

Who care about false god ,false god is only an idea .God creator the sun, there no such thing as the sun god anyway.Why should God need to made way for men's stupid imagination of a sun god .Nobody knows what is the sun god anyway.

I say let people feel free to praise the name of Jesus on 25th of Dec , that is the best way to put the sun god to shame .Don't you agree.

Worship Jesus on 25th Dec. is the best way to crash the idea of the sun god to pieces. Think about it, Nobody remembering the sun god on the 25th DEC , people only remember the birth of Christ. Don't you think that is the sweetest revenge of all times?

Why should people stop worship God on 25th Dec. Are we suppose to made way for the stupid sun god ? No wait .

Don't you think worship Jesus on 25th Dec , is the best way to put the sun god's name to shame .

Reading your post is so inspiring.

thank you very much

Creasy

No, worshipping God on a false holiday is what satan wants you to do. He has tricked the minds of the people into believeing that Dec. 25th is the birth date of Jesus but in actualality no one knows Jesus's birth date. If we actaully knew Jesus's birth date it would be ok to show him love on that day. But it was roman emperor told the people unless they worship the sun god on Dec. 25th they would be killed killed. Alot of people were killed by constantine and the roman catholic church. If you ever heard of the "Babylon the great the mother of all prosistutes" it refers to the catholic church ask the church members to explain this study to you about who the beast is in the bible and you will be amazed to find out it is the the pope.

Remember our creator by KEEPING THE PASSOVER! That is Gods will!

Kendall, you never responded to my question from a few posts ago.

In addition, two more questions:
1. If in the Bible it said the date of Jesus' birth, how do you know it would be ok to celebrate that day?

2. How does your church approach Bible interpretation, because the Roman Catholic church didn't exist in the Bible, but you claim it is referred to. How do you know?

Brother Kendall,

You do have good point there .I keep that in mind.

I am glad to make progress.

Thank you for your help




creasy

Through the study about the beast we can see that it is the pope. Like i said ask the church members to explain this study to you if they dont i will.

Brother Kendall
Chruch of God world mission society

creasy

Brother kendall did not say that it would be ok to celebrate his birthday if we knew the exact date what he ment is that people on dec.25 claim that it is Jesus's birthday and they celebrate it, But if we knew it exactly was Jesus birthday there would be nothing wrong with showing compasion on that day and saying that Jesus was born. But people dont know for sure so its false. what if your Birthday was on april 23 and everyone celebrated your birthday on march 2nd well they would falsly be celebrating your birthday that wouldent be your birthday that would be some other birthday or something elese but not your birthday. God does not want his people to celebrate some false god and pray in his name at the same time. the thing is we dont think we are celebrating a false god because we are saying it in Jesus's name but truly if God never said it, it would be making up things therefore you are surly not celebrating him in vain. and no of course there is nothing wrong with praying to God you can do that anytime you want but if your making it a celebration then therefor you would be adding to the bible which God says not to do. I dont understand why christians celebrate all these holidays which are no where in the bible yet they dont keep the feast and festivals God has givin and commanded us to keep in the bible.

Sister Ashley <3
church of God world mission society

"If we actaully knew Jesus's birth date it would be ok to show him love on that day."

Ashley - that is a direct quote from Brother Kendall's post, which does not say what you say. People celebrate birthdays all the time on days other than the actual birthday, so the point you're trying to make is lost on me. I'm sure you've heard "It's the thought that counts." We don't know when Jesus was born. The day we remember Jesus' birth is that, a day we remember his birth. Nobody claims that is his birthday. The churchmembers that visited me kept on about this and I don't get it.

Second, I have asked 4 questions with zero responses from Ashley or Kendall, who I suspect could be the same person, as Ashley posted under Kendall's visitor name. Anyway, can someone please respond, I'd like to know where you are coming from because it honestly doesn't add up.

Hey Lucas now you're confused right that's what these COG members do they have no proper explanation. Its the twisting of the scriptures. See how they attack other churches and now the pope. They least know they themselves are worshipping false God.
These members who are brainwashed and join them are all wounded within. My brother has a broken marriage and is now preaching this fake gospel.

It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.
Creasy with all due respect I gave a reply to Ashley. Maybe you had not read her post properly. This is called imposing negative thoughts about other churches just to get theirs promoted. Besides they are breaking up homes.
C'mon I do not not follow any of the catholic feast. I have the bible to guide me. So I do not need a fake Christ to come and teach me about passover. Its all there my dear brothers in the Holy Book. Pray to the Holy Spirit to give you the wisdom. Dumb Robots!!

Hi Ashley ,thank you for your input,

I am sure you have strong feeling about your faith ,and you are passionately defending it.

Religion is a very personal thing . At the end of the day ,Joshua can give you many reasons why he disagree with your faith , but it wouldn't matter to you.

Because you have deep emotional attachment to your faith. And that make you "subjectively" loyal your religion, regardless what people say.

It is like politics ,if a person support George Bush .It wouldn't matter what the facts say about anything, Bush's supporter will always vote for Bush.

Love is blind , some person's feeling toward religion is also blind.

When it comes to issue like religion ,politics or love; most people make their decision base on their emotion .

And emotion is not always the result of reason .
What it "feels" right ,it doesn't mean it has been proven right.
---------------------

I got to admit , I agree with Kendall that the early church leader should choose the day to remember the birth of Christ more carefully.

But I don't think it is a sin for today's people to remember the birth of Christ on the 25th Dec .That is not equal to Idol worship.

In John 4:23 ,the Bible says " the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. For the Father seeks such people to be his worshippers. "

Jesus says God appreciate people to worship Him with spirit and truth . Jesus didn't say you have to be in a church ,Jesus didn't say it has to be on a certain day.

It is not important about when or where .

Jesus says it is important "how" you worship.
It has to be sincere.
It has to be from the heart , with spirit and truth.


If you are worshipping God on 25th Dec ,remembering the birth of Jesus Christ.

----------------------

You insists that Dec 25th is unholy because the Church of God told you so.

People in the Church of God tell you some 3000 years old Egyptian mythology, planting the idea of the sun god worshiping in the your head, giving you an impression as if the sun god worship is still exist in today Christian church.
--------------------
Please look at Romans chapter 14.

In Roman 14:5 ,the Bible says:
"One person regards one day holier than other days, and another regards them all alike."

In Roman 14:14 ,the Bible says:
"there is nothing is unclean in itself; but for the man in whose opinion it is unclean, for him it is unclean."

Even the Bible says : "there is nothing is unclean in itself" .
It is unclean to you , because you think it is unclean. But where did you get that idea it is unclean. The people from the Church of God told you so.

--------------------

In Romans 14: 1 , The NKJV version Bible says :
"Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things."

According to verse 1 , if a person don't think it is right to celebrate the birth of Christ on Dec 25. He should keep it to himself and not discuss with others.

Because "there is nothing is unclean in itself " Roman 14:14

It is all in your mind.
----------------------
Sister Ashley ,you said :
God does not want his people to celebrate some false god and pray in his name at the same time.

But you forgot :People simply DO NOT worship false god in the Christian church .

You think they do ,but they don't .It is all inside your head.
In reality there is no idol worship in Christian Church.

The Church of God suggest Christian worship idol, but that is not true.

You used to go to a Christian church, you should know better .

There is no idol worship there. Don't You Get It !!


Thank you


Creasy

All of these things you people say are pointless in the end because you hide yourselves behind walls of blindness or a veil of sin. Jesus is the tree of life how do we live in Gods eyes? It is through is appointed feast passover even God told us to always celebrate it even for generations to come as a lasting ordanince how can you be in a truth if you dont have this most holyiest feast. God commanded us to keep the new covenant did he not? Yet not one of you does how can you say you are saved by God. The foolish man says I dilengtly read the scriptures because i have eternal life through them but Jesus said you do NOT! Joshua you say you have your bible and you can do it yourself you do not need christ!! How can you say you have eternal life if you do not know God. The bible said christ would appear a second time in front of your very eyes in flesh yet you do not open your hearts to see the true light. No where in the bible does it say let us go to the babtist church for salvation or let us go the seventh day adventist for salvation. The bible says Church of God or other wise known as Zion the city of Gods appointed feast and only a little flock will be saved. Why speak good about the other churches when they secretly destroy peoples souls I THINK NOT! The bible says the Holy Spirit was given to the apostles on the feast of pentecost do you keep the pentecost to receive the Holy Spirit? Jesus kept the feast of pentecost why dont you? Of course im going to hear some false accusation as why you dont have to your going to make up some idea in your mind to shut it out like most people do. Unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you have no life in you! And Jesus said the blood was the new covenant.

All and all if you do not believe in the trinity than you deny that God is three persons.

Kendall Let me make it very clear to you that I follow all God's festival including passover and I have faith in LORD JESUS CHRIST. Unfortunately you have not understood the Bible or made a proper study hence you got caught up with the cults who are in a way also making you worship a fake christ ghong and a Holy mother. Have you ever made a research on your own. No you did not because you were blinded and probably needed something desperately to lift you up. They play with your emotions brother. I doubt being a member you know much about the people you pray and worship. Imagine the day you know how stupid you gonna feel. I pray you receive the light of Jesus christ

The bible said christ would appear a second time in front of your very eyes all in glory says book revelation.
If so every eye would see it isn't it But even you have not seen him. He comes gets baptized seventh adventist church which is termed as a cult so his baptism is also not valid. He is born in the buddhist family which beleives in reincarnation. And he is dead. He never claimed to be Christ while on earth like Jesus did. Wow what a secret!

creasy
I went to cathlic chruches yes. but anwser me this my would we do people wear crosses around there neck and why do people hang them up in there house and why are there HUGE crosses in the front of the church. and when i said people worship a false God and pray in his name i ment that in Gods eyes if you are keeping feast that he has never commanded to keep in his eyes you are not worshiping him the TRUE GOD. you are simply adding your own feast to the bible and rejecting Gods feast exactly what God says not in rev. not to add or sub anything from his bible if we are celebrating something he never commanded us to keep then we would be adding because we as people make it traditions to celebrate Christmas and Easter if its not any where in the bible why do you get so defensive over keeping it i dont get it. Do you not understand i was in your place not to long ago, christmas seems so glorious but it realy isent and i dont get how you dont understand that if it is not in the bible then we shouldent do it. Its fine to praise God whenever you want anyday anytime but when it comes to making up dates that people say are the day that Jesus was born, you are truly listning to a Mans words because God never commanded us to keep them and can i ask you a question why dont you keep the passover and the other feast which are in the bible?

Joshua
you claim to follow all of Gods feast right?...so then which Feast are we in right now?..and since you claim you keep all the feast do you mind naming all the ones you keep?? and by the way I did do research and i have found truth in this chruch..like i said i was in a cathlic church and a babtist church and i never understood half the things they were talking about because they would pick one scriputure out of the bible and read it and they thought they had all the anwsers. But the bible had many scriptures its a matter of putting them together. and by the way you said how Christ Ahn Sahng Hong was babtised by a false church well think about when Jesus came to the earth someone had to babtise Jesus but nobody on earth new the exact truth obvisolly thats why God came down in the first place ...and Jesus got babtised by a Man named Jhon the babtist even he didnt know all the truth , but God had to be babtized somehow and if Jhon new all the truth, Jesus wouldent have to come down from his glorious Kingdom to a sinful earth and be crusified on the cross therefore what im trying to say is that neither did Jesus become babtize in a true exact church but he had to set an example for us, and if you really read the scriptures you will see that it says that Melchezdek will be born without geneology. meaning his parents will not be believers. and as you know Jesus compared himself to melchezidek the high preist. and in Jhon, Jesus also explained when he was talking with his disiples he said that he will ask the Father to send another consuler the "spirt" of truth.. he will remind you of all things that I taught for in a little while you will not see me but in a little while you will see me again. obvisolly Jesus explains how he will come again and how when he comes again he will remind people of all things Jesus taught. and when you say that it says he will apear in front of your eyes. you are once again taking the scripture to littural because remember Jesus speaks in peribales most of the things he says sounds like one thing but is really leaning toward another thing. and what he ment by him apearing in front of our eyes was that He was going to be in flesh. meaning we can actually see him. and its kind of weird That Christ Ahn Sahng Hong would know everything he new expecially being born in to a buddist family. How can a Kid who was taught from a young age to be budist be able to restore the passover and be able to establish our Zion which keeps all the Feast and Father made so manny books in deatail explaing so much throgh the bible. also when Father came he lived in ashack with barely enough money to live and you know what is Job was to break down rocks yet he spent all the money he earned to buy paper to make all of those books he wrote explaining everything we had forgotten. No regular Man can make such a miracle as he did. He must be our second comming but Just as back then alot of people rejected Jesus they will sadly also reject fathers new comming {Christ Ahn Sahng Hong}because everything in is a shadow of what goes on now in these last days as it did when Jesus destroyed the Earth with water nobody wanted to hear the truth and almost everyone turned away. im sorry i forgot you had something elese you were sord if asking about you said how Christ Ahn Sahng Hong never said he was God but he Did in one of the books that he wrote.

well God bless you Joshua and if you have any more questions just let me know and be sure to anwser my questions i asked you at the begining.

Sister Ashley
Church of god world mission society

"they would pick one scriputure out of the bible and read it and they thought they had all the anwsers"

I've got to say Ashley, I chuckled to myself when you said this, because this is EXACTLY what the people who came to my house from your church did.

I've asked several questions that have gone unanswered by Ashley and Kendall. Can they not respond? Do you sacrifice animals? The Bible said to. If you are not then you are obviously worshipping a false god. Exclamation point!!!

In addition, try organizing your thoughts into some sort of cohesive paragraphs and spelling words correctly. CATHOLIC. BAPTIST. etc. I have to admit I stop reading about halfway through Ashley's posts because they start to just ramble on trying to insult whoever isn't in her church.

Ashley I have all this info please do not waste your time to explain to me cause my faith is strong in Jesus. My brother rattled exactly all this and so are the rest of all the COG members doing. Your church has a stereotype way of preaching and they impose negative pressures on your brains about other churches (BRAINWASHED)
Well its the feast of tabernacles described as ingathering and you boast that you follow all laws and festivals but you are under satan's deception my dear and by the I have referred to all his books. This man has been interpreting the bible and God does not need to do cause he is God. But he wanted to embrace christianity and his followers found a nice way to portray him a the second coming only after his death. What an easy thing to fool some bunch of weak and gullibles like you.
A regular man does much more than breaking rocks to earn his daily bread. what a miracle to go on living for his family each day. Any why should he rewrite everything passover was still being followed. Now tell me but the jews did not accept Jesus.
There are plenty out there in the world depressed and shattered heading on a wrong path. Jesus said "Beware of false prophets in sheep clothing"
The rest of your story is fanciful and all spiced up even the kids may find it unrealistic. Please boost up your common sense.

Ashley I have all this info please do not waste your time to explain to me cause my faith is strong in Jesus. My brother rattled exactly the same and so are the rest of all the COG members doing. Your church has a stereotype way of preaching and they impose negative pressures on your brains about other churches (BRAINWASHED)
Well its the feast of tabernacles described as ingathering and you boast that you follow all laws and festivals but you are under satan's deception by praying in the name of Ghong my dear and by the I have referred to all his books. This man has been interpreting the bible and God does not need to do that cause he is God. But he wanted to embrace christianity and his followers found a nice way to portray him a the second coming only after his death. What an easy thing to fool some bunch of weak and gullibles like you.
A regular man does much more than breaking rocks to earn his daily bread. what a miracle to go on living for his family each day. Any why should he rewrite everything, Passover was always being being followed. Now tell me but the jews did not accept Jesus.
There are plenty out there in the world depressed and shattered and COG is preying on them. Jesus said "Beware of false prophets in sheep clothing"
The rest of your story is fanciful and all spiced up even the kids may find it so unrealistic. You are an adult please boost up your common sense.

To Ashley and Kendall,

My question to you both is, when Ahnsahnghong was alive preaching the passover and how it was abolished, I'm sure he had to preach who would be the person to bring that back.

Now, who was the person he said would bring back the passover?

If Ahnsahnghong preached EXACTLY what your church is teaching today, then back when he was alive preaching, his congregation should have known back then if he was the second coming christ for the simple fact..


1. He preached of the passover and how it was abolished and who abolished it and who would re-establish it.

2. He had to have preached of the second coming and what his purpose would be and HOW he would do it, after all he's God..correct?

3. His church was probably the only church without a cross back in the 1950's. If someone was to enter his church and ask "Where is the Cross", he would them reply.."The TRUE CHURCH does not have a cross" and would give them the meaning of why the cross isn't something he has in his church. Therefore, the answer that he must have given to them should insinuate that his church is unique and different from the other churches that have crosses not to mention keep the Sabbath and the Passover "correctly".

There is more but I will let this digest i your minds a bit before I will go further.

There is absolutly no excuse for a man to so call "reveal hidden secrets" and not be discovered by any of his congregation until after he died.

Are you saying that he never preached of a second coming being born in a "shabby" house in Korea amongst "gentiles"?

Are you saying that he never mentioned and bashed the Seventh Day Adventist and their practices in his books?

Yet, Jesus Christ went into the synagogue and stood in front of everyone and told them the new laws, while they looked at him in digust.

Ahnsahnhong on the other hand, never went into the Seventh Day Adventist church and told them they are not following God's law correctly.


- James

To Ashley,

You mentioned that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, while Ahnsahnghong was baptized by Seventh Day Adventist.

Now let me use your own words, you said:

----------------
and its kind of weird That Christ Ahn Sahng Hong would know everything he new expecially being born in to a buddist family. How can a Kid who was taught from a young age to be budist be able to restore the passover and be able to establish our Zion which keeps all the Feast and Father made so manny books in deatail explaing so much throgh the bible.

-----------------

1. You admit that he was a buddhist, therefore he neevr knew of God besides Buddah. His his parents were Buddhist then he as well was a Buddhist. When you were a child, what religious belief did your parents follow? Whatever it is, you were the same.

This man was technically a Buddhist until his acceptance of Jesus Christ from his baptism by the Seventh Day Adventist church. Therefore, he never knew God even at the age of 29.

You asked the questio "How can a kid at a young age be able to do such things and knows so much aboutthe bible?"

Simple, he was TAUGHT. In order for him to have been baptized by the Seventh Day Adventist church he would have had to go through extensive bible study.

After that, the person can then choose a date when they want to be baptized and accept Jesus and remain loyal to the church.

If you don't believe me, look it up.

Also, in 1948 Isreal gained it's independence and that event is considered prophecy by many churches. That event is said to be the sign of the second coming christ.

That event alone triggered an all out wave around the world for people to basically repent for "the time is near".

Him being baptized in 1948 was decided by his church or himself because the Fig Tree story.

For example: Today, there are many seeking to join a church because they feel the end is coming. WHY?? Because of the so called signs of natural disasters and wars and RUMORS of wars.

That alone would get plenty of people to get baptized without question especially if there are people hyping and pumping scripture of the end in people's head.

His baptism isn't special, it's not similar to Jesus's and it's definately not soemthing that should be looked at as a miracle.

Quick question, who named him Ahnsahnghong?

I will continue later.

- James

Actually let me correct myself. His church was officially established in 1964. Although he may have been preaching in the 1950's (in homes perhaps). Even so, the teachings of the church of today is either distorted or completely different from it's original form, from when he was alive.

His name Ahnsahnghong which is suppose to mean "Holy Spirit" should have been an obvious sign to his congregation that he is claiming to be a deity.

No if's and's or but's about that. If you are calling yourself the Holy Spirit and is preaching that the second coming christ will come in a new name which is the Holy Spirit which is the third name and the third form of God signifying the trinity.

Didn't he not teach that the third coming of christ will be the Holy Spirit at the same time, calling himself the Holy Spirit? Especially since his teachings were based on God coming in different ages?

Kendall, as you have said in your post:

--------------------
But think of it this way before Jesus came people were preying to Jehovah..then when Jesus came and died on the cross People would now prey in Jesus's name not Jehovah even though Jehovah is our God we tend to talk about Jesus more than we talk about Jehovah. Same thing with the 2nd comming christ Ahn Sahng Hong. God had to come again to establish the passover because people forgot about it therefore he came in a newname so therefore of course we are going to be more foucused on the new name because we already know what Jesus has done for us. Jehovah,Jesus, and christ Ahn Sahng Hong are all the same the Father Jehovah The son Jesus and the holy spirit?
-------------------

That being said, now Kendall and Ashely, explain to me how no one knew who he was until after he died?

Please explain to me how he came in secret?

Explain to me how his baptism means anything and who was the person to interpret his baptism as prophecy?

Who was the person to interpret him building churches as biblical prophecy?
As your church tend to say, "Only God can interpret the bible and reveal it's secrets"

Now if Ahnsahong didn't interpret that himself, how would a "normal man" be able to intertprt scripture without him and say that what he did is prophec? First of all, the person that interpret that isn't God.

- James

Ashley,

you said in your post to Joshua:

------------------------
im sorry i forgot you had something elese you were sord if asking about you said how Christ Ahn Sahng Hong never said he was God but he Did in one of the books that he wrote.
------------------------

So he said that he was God in one of his books. Therefore he must have said he was God to his congregation when he was alive, which would totally contradict the story that YOUR CHURCH says about him coming in secret and no one knowing who he was until after he died.

For if he didn't say that he was God, then there would have been no one to document his life and works to use as some type of proof of biblical prophecy.

Did he have disciples? Please do not say he did because it will further proove my case but if he didn't, then who documented his works and how he "broke rocks" which I'm sure he wasn't the only korean man to do so..but since it's him, that makes him special.

I've heard that there is even a video on him and it's showing him struggling to walk up steps, looking very helpless with sad music playing in the background and a soft women's voice telling a story about poor little man, almost like you're suppose to feel pity and sorry for this guy.

Please, give me a break. Now why would he video tape himself in such a mannor, what was his intents? What's with the bad acting? There's obvious a nefarious reason for it.

As I can see, it helps make the Church's story more believable to those who watched it.


I will end this post with this:

Matthew 24:4-5

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

- James

Oh i'm sorry, I've seem to not have made my point as far as Jesus's being baptized and Ahnsahnghong being baptized.

It is said that when the second coming christ comes back, he will not find faith...correct?

Well apparently he did, he found faith by getting baptized as a seventh day adventist, therefore accepting Jesus Christ as his lord and savior.

Now, let's get the definition of FAITH from the dictionary and compare it to what ahnsahnghong did.

Faith: Trust, confidence. The complete acceptance of a truth which cannot be demonstrated or proved by the process of logical thought, ie: religious faith

From Buddhism to Seventh Day Adventism. Clearly he found some type of faith here on earth. You just don't get baptized if you know and believe that it doesn't mean anything, especially since he so called knew that they weren't the true church from the start.

For example: I wouldn't get baptized by your church because I know that it doesn't mean anything. Therefore, that should mean to YOU that I haven't found faith. However, if ahnsahngong knew that being baptized doesn't mean anything, then he wouldn't have done it, it would be a waste of time.

So obviously it meant something to him.
Where in the bible did it ever mention the second coming being baptized for the heck of it?

Was it the KJV = Kim Joo-cheol Version?


It would have made more sense for him not to get baptized at all, since your church claims that he did it just to fulfill prophecy.

However, to get baptized by Seventh Day means you are finding faith, which is accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. There would be no need for God to come back and do so...none at all.

Didn't the bible say that he wouldn't find faith?

Don't forget him being a Buddhist for half of his life. Wow, now that's alot of time being faithful and BOWING DOWN to a staute of a fat guy from another culture.From what I see, he seems to have easily accept religious beliefs from other cultures.

I guess after being taught the bible by the Seventh Day Adventist bible study, it scared him so much when he realized that he was worshipping, praying and bowing down to a statue.

Go figure...

- James

Brother Kendall,

Thank you for your help ,

I don't mean to be rude, I am sorry . I should not get emotional , otherwise it will affect my learning of the teaching .

I am trying to accept Ahn Sahng Hong , but let me try to understand this:

Brother Kendall you says :
"Why speak good about the other churches when they secretly destroy peoples souls.
I THINK NOT! "

Please How the other churches destroy peoples souls ?
----------------------------------------------
Brother Kendall you says :

"The bible says Church of God or other wise known as Zion the city of Gods appointed feast and only a little flock will be saved. "

How do you know "Church of God " is Zion ,who told you that ?

May I ask where is your Biblical support on that idea ?

Why can a Baptist Church be Zion too ? And Why not ?

Where is the Biblical reference to prove "the Church of God" is the only God appointed Church ?
----------------------------------------------

What happen if someone who believe the exact same teaching as the WMSCOG does ,but they don't want to work with Korean Church of God. They want to have their own independent Church of God ,do you think the Mother would mind ?

Thank you


Creasy

Hello Creasy,

It is written is the bible that where ever the Ark of the Covenant rest, that is Zion.

So if the Ark of the Covenant is in South Korea and the Church of God has the ark in the church then yes, it would be considered zion.

However, they do not have the Ark. They may say that they have the "new covenant" but that is something they made up because God's law passed down to Moses never changed.

Then Ten comandments will always be what it is.

- James

Hi James, you've made excellent points. I do not need to comment. Hats off to you. God bless May you and help you continue to throw some light onto their darkened minds
Creasy good for you. This is how you go about doing research before you join any religion. Make sure you get your reply before brother Kendall & Ashley disappear from this blog.
The COG's add or play with scriptures to suit their needs. If unable to find answers they call it being "persecuted"
Kendall now you know why Father came & he lived in a shack with barely enough money to live then & break down rocks. To tamper with the Holy Book in secret and find an easy way out to deceive fools like you ( getting inspiration to start up hos own church after the seventh day adventist) It's a good business you know and mother should be enjoying the fruits but unfortunately her health does not permit. Jesus Christ is the judge
My brother has given up his job to preach this false doctrine because he's told the end is near.

Hi Joshua,

Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad to be here and I'm just trying to do my part to shed some light along with everyone else.

The way they portray Jesus is amazing. They're basically saying that him getting crucified and dying for our sins was an accident.

"Oh he wasn't meant to die because he had to preach for 40 years"

So they're basically saying that he didn't do his duty and fulfill prophecy. Now let's observe the story of Jesus Christ dying only to come back again not in spirit but in his actually body and it is written that there was a witness to that who also felt him and touched his wounds.

Now if Jesus didn't fulfill his duty, then at the time when he was ressurrected, he would have continued to preach his gospel for the rest of the 37 years to complete that prophecy...wouldn't he not?

It was prophecied that he would be born and die to bear sin. So Out of all the prophecies that happened so "perfectly" and without flaw, why would this prophecy of him preaching for 40 years not be fullfilled?

Eveything that happened from plagues to floods to the killing of the first born was out of the mouth of a person who recieved that message from God.

Bascially, everything that God said he was going to do..he actually did. Now one act or prophecy was left incomplete.

So are they saying that God made a mistake in his prophecy?

I mean c'mon he came back to life, it would have been the perfect moment to continue his work, wouldn't?

But he didn't, he told his disciples to spread his word, for the simple fact that he came and did what was written and fulfilled it.

Now lets say Jesus DID preach for 40 years to complete this so called prophecy, what difference would it actually make?

Whether he preached for 3 years or preached for 40 years, the situation would still be the same as it is today.

It is written that the world will end regardless.

However, the only difference would be, their doctrine wouldn't have a corner stone because Jesus wouldn't be coming back to preach for "37 years", now would he.


- James

Is this a good church or not?

NO.

WMSCOG is a CULT. It's filled with filthy lies and fits the description of the word CULT to a T. Absolute truth mixed with Absolute lies. The truth used as the hook and later the lies are mixed in as a blender mixes Coco Powder and Milk. The result is mind numbed Robots and a steady $cash$ flow for mother and Kim, Chun Chul or whatever the fuck they call him.

Mother is God but she only speaks Korean ? She wears a Hearing Aid ? She used to be a Cow ? LOL ! Her Sister did time in Prison for stealing Money from a Church ? What a steaming Crock of Freshly Shat, Shit. Get a Life !

Your Pal,

Hawkeye !

Does this church even take into consideration the conduct of the church and the qualifications of its leaders as Paul directed Timothy? On what basis does this world mission society church of god say it was established? Where? When? It sounds like it was established by man. I believe that Jesus established His Church. While talking with His disciples in Mathew 16:15-19 Jesus says upon this rock I shall build my Church or words to that effect. Now there are many who believe that Jesus meant that Peter would be the beginning of the Church. Please read all of the passages and perhaps consider that the "rock" that Jesus spoke of was the belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God and upon that "rock" He would build His Church. I would much rather belong to a Church established spiritually in the scriptures than one invented by man. Your thoughts and opinions welcomed.

To Brother Kendall and Sister Ashley how are you ,

To others people who visit this blog, Kendall and Ashley is simply try to help me to understand their faith .Please leave them alone.

The people the Church of God are truly good people. I will listen to them if their teaching is from the Bible .

But I won't listen to them if their teaching is contradict to the Bible ,or if they are misinterpreting God's word.

Thank you for reminding me to think about this subject. I agree we should pay attention to the teaching of the Bible.

Brother Kendal and Ashley ,You said:

How come other Churches don't remember
1 ) The Passover
2 ) The feast of Unleavened bread ?
3 ) The Day of First fruits
4 ) The Feast of the Weeks
5 ) The Feast of the Trumpets
6 ) The Day of Atonement
7 ) The Feast of Tabernacles

I think we already finish our discussion on the Passover .

Other Churches do remember it ,but according to 1 Corinthians 11:20 ,Christian called it "the Lord's Supper ".

The church of God just use a different name. They call it the "Passover "

Christian do remember "the Lord's Supper " ,we are doing the same thing , but the church of God just use a different name.

But isn't the name "Passover" is the shadow ,and the reality is the Jesus "Blood and wine" on the Lords Supper ?

Why holding on the shadow "the Passover " , when we already have the reality " The Lord Supper ".

----------------------------------------

Christian remember the " The Lord's Supper "once a month ,but the Church of God remember it once a year .

Jesus waited until the Passover to scarify His life .Because Jesus need to be the Passover lamb to fulfill the prophecy.

But there is no instruction from the Bible require people to remember Jesus death only once a year .

There is no reason to restrict people to remember Christ die for us only once a year .That is not the teaching in the Bible.
------------------------------------------
To be continue...

About keeping the feast of Unleavened bread and other Days and Festivals.

I remember a certain places in the Bible talks about through Jesus Christ we have a new beginning ,and we do not require to carry the burden of the Old Testament Laws .

The Moses law require men to have circumcision ,and forbid people to eat pork etc.

But in the New Testament , things are different. I find some scriptures says because of Jesus Christ , people are no longer under the burden of the laws . People are not require to keep the days and the festivals.

Hi everyone ,

I have trouble inputing messages to the site .Somebody has setup another discussion about the Church of God in the Forum in crosswalk.com .

why don't we go there ,and continue the discussion ..

http://forums.crosswalk.com/Anyone_know_this_cult_%22Church_of_God%22_from_Korea/m_1710152/tm.htm

thank you

Creasy

About keeping the feast of Unleavened bread and other Days and Festivals.
#1.
In Act 15 according to the scriptures, the confusion was made clear by Paul.

The Church leaders from Antioch ,Syria and Judea told people they need to keep the Laws of Moses , in order to recieve Salvation .

But Paul said he never teach people they need to keep Moses Law for Jesus Salvation.


ACTS 15:24
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, saying You must be circumcised and keep Moses Law ,to whom we gave no such teaching. NKJV version Bible

The feast of Unleavened bread was part of Moses Teaching ,and Paul said he never teach people it is necessary to keep Moses Teaching for Gods Salvation.

--------------------------------------
to be continue...

#2.
In Colossians chapter 2:13 -17 ,the Bible says people not require to keep the old testament laws.

Being dead through your sins and the evil condition of your flesh, God gave life together through our Lord Jesus Christ , and forgiveness of all our sins; 2:13

Having put an end to the law which was against us, taking it out of the way by nailing it to his cross; 2:14

Having made himself free from the rule of authorities and powers, he put them openly to shame, glorying over them in it. 2:15

For this reason let no man be your judge in any question of food or drink or feast days or new moons or Sabbaths: 2:16

For these are the shadow of the things which are to come; but the reality is Christ. 2:17

The Bible says :

"The bond" , the written law of ordinances was "blotted out," erased, removed. When Jesus was nailed to the cross, it also drove the nails the laws on the cross.

Let no man compel you to keep its ordinances. In meat, or in drink. By requiring you to eat only what the Moses law prescribes Or in respect of a holy day. Such as the Passover, Pentecost, etc. Or of the new moon. The monthly observances Or of the Sabbath day.

Which are a shadow of things to come. We are to pay no attention to the shadows since Christ has come, but to observe what we find in him and the gospel. And forget about the shadow , the keeping of days and festivals.


Colossians 2:17 says : the feast days , news moon and Sabbath are only the shadow and the reality is Christ. Since Christ has come, we are to pay no attention to the shadows. That is why today's churches do not keep the feast of Unleavened bread .

---------------------------------------
To be continue..

#3.
In Galatians Chapter 4 , Paul teach us that after we accept Christ , Jesus has redeem our sins. We are no longer slave to the laws. We are the children of God. We are not under the bondage of the laws. Paul said if we go back to live under the laws, legal bondage has no purpose in Salvation.

Galatians
4:9
But now that you have come to have knowledge of God, or more truly, God has knowledge of you, how is it that you go back again to the poor and feeble first things, desiring to be servants to them again?
4:10
You keep days, and months, and fixed times, and years.
4:11
I am afraid of you, that I may have been working for you in vain.


In Galatians 4: 9 - 11 . Some people after they accept Christ ,they go back to the Moses laws .

They return to their old way of keeping the days ( Sabbath) ,the festivals (the feast of Unleavened bread etc. ) ,the monthly new moon and the years.

Paul said ,he is afraid his teaching to this people has gone in vain.

In observing these legal bondage has no purpose in Salvation.

--------------------------------

#4.
In Ephesians 2:15
"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"

In verse 15 the scriptures says , by the sufferings in the flesh, Jesus Christ took away the binding power of the ceremonial law , which is the law of commandments contained in ordinances.

The scriptures says ,the binding power of the ceremonial law were ended by Jesus Christ. Therefore people shouldn't live their life like they are slave to the law.

=====================

Brother Kendall you said :All your teaching of the Church of God are stated directly in the Bible and nobody could deny the teaching of the Church of God....


But it seem like all the scriptures listed above are pointed to one consistent position :
Jesus Christ has ended the law of commandments contained in ordinances.

I don't know what is your interpretation on these scriptures.
ACTS 15:5 ,Colossians 2:13 -17 ,Galatians 4 :9,10,11.
and Ephesians 2:15


" A man get righteousness by faith only and not by the works of the law. " Romans 3:28

----------------------

My friends you said God want us to keep the all the days and festivals .

But why there are so many places in the Bible tells me that it is not necessary to keep the law of Moses? ?
And the Bible tells me, I don't need to keep the days and the festivals.


Thank you


Creasy

Creasy, you have just caused them to leave the site. It will take them a few days to confer with their church leaders to see what they should do and their church leaders will tell them that this site is evil and to steer clear. I congratulate you on "hitting the nail on the head" so to speak. I believe if you study Paul's letters and attend a church that Paul himself would attend, based on his directions to Timothy, and founded spiritually in scriptures, you can't be wrong. Keep up the good work.

Hello confused ,

how are you,

Seem like you know the operation of the Church of Goid pretty well.

How do you know they have to report to their leaders ?

Can you tell me some more about them?

In your opinion , are they a cult ?

Were you used to be one of them ?

Or you know someone who goes to their Chruch ?

I am currently attending their Sabbath worship, they are really nice to me.

But I do not completely agree with their teaching .I am trying to learn more.

I am thinking about joining them, for my girlfriend really want me to join them.

thank you

Creasy

Creasy, when you talk to them, notice how they are humble to extremes. Also notice that when anyone finds fault with their doctrine they call it "persecution". They will smile at you until your eyes hurt. They will study the Bible unceasingly, pointing out how the true word is "hidden". How the Old Testament is the "shadow" and the New Testament is the "reality".

in my opinion they are a cult. They play little games with numbers, dates, and all it boils down to is a cult, pure and simple. The Lord said"do this in rememberance of me" when he talked about the Lord's Supper. The Passover is a ceremony so the Jews would remember how they were saved in Egypt from the curse on the Pharoah. The Passover was never lost or forgotten.

how convenient that they say since you remember your birthday once a year you should partake of the Lord's Supper once a year. It would be a new concept for them to remeber the Lord on a daily basis. The Lord's Supper makes us remember His suffering for us and the gift we received because of His suffering and it demonstrates our belief that He is the risen Saviour and the Son of the Living God. As you stated before, since the coming of our Lord, Jesus, we are no longer held prisoner by sin thru the Law. Peace be with you my brother and please stay in touch.

This false church teaches that their founder is Christ, which is ABSOLUTELY FALSE. They also teach that only by association to their church one will obtain salvation. It does not matter what name is outside a building, this is a clear sign of a cult. ---------- Act 1:9 And when he (Jesus) had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. The Bible says that Jesus rose up in to the sky and went into the clouds. When he returns, he will come in the same way. The text is clear, and the rest of the Bible verifies it. He went into the clouds in full view, and he will return in full view. His leaving wasn't spiritual - and his return won't be spiritual. We're not looking for his return in ANOTHER human, but as "this same Jesus." Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. This says "every eye" will see him - not just those with discernment - not just those looking for him in this way, but EVERY eye. When that day comes, the tribes of Israel will mourn (this word "kindreds" is really "tribes" in the Greek) as Zech. 12 specifies. There has been no mourning - and EVERY eye hasn't seen him. On the contrary, the Bible warns us not to be deceived by people claiming to be Christ: Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Mat 24:23 Then if any man (including you, I'm afraid) shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; (or has already returned invisibly - or in the form of another human) believe [it] not. Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (another way of saying that "every eye" will see him) Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,(again, in agreement with Zech 12) and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. When Jesus returns to earth, it will be with power and great glory. He is not coming as the sacrificial lamb this time, but as the lion of Judah, as the King. Yes, Jesus comes as a thief, but to snatch the believers: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord If you have not been caught up into the clouds, then either you are not a believer, or Jesus has not returned. When Jesus DOES return, physically, visibly, this is what will happen: Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; (Has this happened?)and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Even if you do not take "Jerusalem" literally - if you see it as the church - when did this possibly happen? Has half the church gone into captivity, with our women ravished? Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, [and] all the saints with thee. When Jesus comes, he brings his saints and/or angels with him. Where are the saints and/or angels, if he has returned? Notice it also says "the LORD my God." This is GOD returning - not just some "Christ consciousness" coming to us in some human form. This is Jesus himself, who is God - visibly returning the same way he left - and returning to the same place he left from. Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the light shall not be clear, [nor] dark: Zec 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, [that] at evening time it shall be light. My nights are still dark. Are yours? Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, [that] living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. When Jesus returns, he will be king over all the earth, and there will be ONE LORD. How many religions are there right now? Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Regardless of whether you interpret this as all believers or the converted Jews, there has been no gathering yet. Mar 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see (Who was he talking to here? Not believers, who could conceivably see him with "eyes of discernment", but those who were about to crucify him) the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also. If you have not received your heavenly mansion, then either you are not a believer, or Jesus has not returned.

Hey Guys peace to you all in the name of Jesus Christ. So finally they, brother Kendall & Ashley did disappear from this blog. The spirit of ghong was unable to guide & help them I guess. When they cannot give a straightforward answer they consider us like we are evil and do not wish to deal with us anymore. Jesus never gave up till he was crucified. Cmon COG'S this shows you do not have the 100% truth. Probably you are now at the round table confrence at the headquarters trying to add more lies or twist scriptures.
Please stop destroying lives of the helpless and broken hearted people in this world misguiding with false doctrines and giving them hopes of seeking salvation.
May God forgive you and enlighten your minds

I like that post Joshua, right on.

Your Pal,

Hawkeye

Hello Joshua,

I made some good friends from the Church of God. I think it is not fair for you to call them a liar. A person who lies, he knows he is hiding the truth.

But the people from the Church of God ,they really believe in what they preach.

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But frankly I couldn't found any " solid " prove from the Bible to support the idea that Ahn Sahng Hong is Jesus Christ .

The simple fact that Ahn Sahng Hong himself never witness in public to people that he is Christ, make it very hard to believe that he is Christ. If I want to really know somebody , I would buy a biography written by that person . I don't trust other people making up story about him. I want to listen to what He has to say about Himself .

I want to read what he has written. I want to know the person by his words. In fact I have read most of Ahn Sahng Hong's Book , he never mention to people the is Christ . In his book , Ahn Sahng Hong always says : Do what Jesus do.

If he is Christ ,he would do it just like Jesus did .By openly telling people he is Christ . And traveling everywhere , preaching to people that he is Christ .

But Ahn Sahng Hong never mention in his writing that he is Christ , so I don't believe he is Christ.

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Some men, who cliamed Ahn Sahng Hong told them in private that he is Christ.

The foundation of the Church of God is based on the words of these men . Ahn Sahng Hong never openly tell people he is Christ . But these men says Ahn Sahng Hong is Christ .

Who are these men ? What is their names ? Are they trustworthy people ?

I know nothing about these people ,why should I trust what they says is the truth . Especially Ahn Sahng Hong never suggest to his Church members that he is god.

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I can't imagine Christ come back and not openly let people know he has come home. It doesn't make any sense . I am not convinced at all.

If Christ came back to earth ,he would have give witness to people .
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The people of the Church of god are really nice people.

But may be it is a mistake for them to believe Ahn Sahng Hong is Jesus .

But they didn't know they are wrong , so you can't call them a liar.

They sometimes misinterpret the Bible. But they believe what they were told.


Thank you



Creasy

Well after reading the KJV = Kim Joo-Cheol Version of the bible which is their books, published by them, and only given to the followers of their church, I would see why they believe what they do.

None of their books can be purchased in your local book store. None of their books can be bought online or is sitting safely on the shelf at your local public library.

These books are written, edited and published by them. It's their product.

They may instruct their followers not to read books outside from the bible because they are written by mere men, but they should pay attention to the name/nmes that are on their books.

Who are they really? Are they God too? So not only is this Mother god, Kim Joo is god too?

If he was taught what ahnsahghong knows and the congregation was taught what ahnsahnghong knows, is anyone besides Kim Joo and "Mother" allowed to write books?

I mean they all have the same knowledge of god now. They too should be gods. It shouldn't be limited to two people.

Too many gods, so little time.....

- James

That was a good one james. Indeed too many gods. I have been given these books and specifically told not to share with anyone. You can these books only if you get baptized in the name of ghong. What a deal. My brother gets loads at his cost, goes preaching & distributing them only after accepting their teaching.
Well creasy my apology for calling them liars anyway who am I to judge
Just how they really believe in what they preach or told to attack other churches calling them liars (brainwashed by their gods). We need to tap their brains buddy if one desires to save their family members.
If they have the truth don't you think they should have been here on this blog to clarify things till the end but can't you see they are gone....... what would you call them?

Someone posted:

"However, to get baptized by Seventh Day means you are finding faith, which is accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. There would be no need for God to come back and do so...none at all.

Didn't the bible say that he wouldn't find faith?"
I don't think you understand that baptism is being annointed with the Holy Spirit (Jesus said that when he was baptized he was annoyed with the Holy Spirit, in the Bible). Jesus was baptized at the age of 30, which was to fulfill the prophecy of King David. But do you not accept him as Christ- God in the flesh? Even after baptism? It is said in the new testament, regarding the second coming of Christ, that he will reign on King David's throne. At the time that prophecy was written, King David was dead. So how could the second coming Christ do that? And why would they pick David of all kings in the book of the Bible? We must look at King David then, and things concerning him which are important to the prophecy which Christ Ahnsahnghong- second coming Christ- has fulfilled. David had a few characteristics. One, which I mentioned previously, was that he was annoited king (as it is written, specifically "annointed" and not crowned) at the age of 30. Two, is that he established the physical city of Zion. But in the book of Revelations is written of spiritual Zion, refuge from spiritual Babylon, and (though this is a huge study by itself, spiritual Zion and Babylon) you will find that spiritual Zion is wherever all of God's feasts and laws are kept. Christ Ahnsahnhong established spiritual Zion; that being the Church of God (we follow the new covenant, which is not just "Jewish customs" because they were done differently in the old testament, but Jesus in the new testament- when he changed these customs- he said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. In otherwords, the new covenant). Anyway, King David also reigned for 40 years. But as we know, Jesus Christ only preached the gospel for 3 years before he was crucified (as prophecized). That is why when God came back to us again in the flesh, as Christ Ahnsahnghong, God willed him to be baptized at the age of 30, to continue with its fulfillment. He established spirital Zion, for those of us formerly lost in spiritual Babylon, so that we may be saved and have eternal life (Amen). But most importantly he preached the truth of the passover (which is another study as well, the most important of all), for 37 years before he ascended back to Heaven. But he did not kill himself or die of natural causes. He simply closed his eyes and died. And he told his disciples that he would die, four years ahead of time.

There are not too many 33 year olds that can tell you the exact year of their death. I have only heard of one =) Likewise, I haven't heard of too many *50* year olds doing that. It was God's will to ascend back to Heaven, after suffering so much rejection and turmoil in this spiritual Babylon. But His love for us is so great, He came back a second time (as he promised, when he promised) to give us the truth of eternal life, as it is also prophecized that the new covenant will be given to King David (spiritual King David, as this is from new testament scripture) and it will give eternal life. God willed Christ Ahnsahnghong to be baptized at the age of 30. He was raised a Buddhist and His parents were both devout. Thus he was not a Christian until the age of 30 (I don't think his parents let Him read the Bible!) Is it humanly possible for Him to have learned so much truth of the bible in that environment in what, a day? A month?). Likewise, Jesus was a Jew. He was not a Christian until the age of 30, when he made the religion! Suddenly He changed the Judaic law. Christians today believe in Jesus Christ without a doubt!) But Jesus Christ did not come to abolish the law (as He said in the Bible), but to fulfill it. To give us the new covenant.

There are so many wonderful, beautiful truths in the Bible, and in it God has said that not everyone will see it, but those with spiritual ears and eyes. Through the Bible He has revealed to us secrets from the beginning of the bible to the end (as God said in the Bible), and in that same breath of the Earth as well. And Jesus has uttered them all in the form of parables, so that those who are his children will come to Him and those who are not, do not (as Jesus explained to his disciples in the Bible). There are so many truths in the Bible which are spoken in parables, and only God can reveal these secrets as he did 2000 years ago as Jesus Christ with the old testament. God has come back a second time to give us salvation, and the Bible clearly points out what that is. He has proven himself through both the old and the new testament- which we were given so that we may know him when he comes! Any man who declares himself Christ, ask him if he has the hidden manna. As it is said in the Bible He shall. Most Christians don't know what the hidden manna is. Ask him why God created Adam and Eve, said "let US create man in OUR image" man and female (as it is written in the very first book of Genesis. I think we've all read that one, haven't we? But if you haven't, I do know off the top of my head that it is Gen 2:26-27) But God has revealed everything to us in His second coming, for reasons I cannot even begin to explain to you at this moment because I must get up early for work and I have already explained so much and in less detail than I wish I could give you right now. But understand that Jesus Christ's disciples did not come to Him because He performed miracles. It was because He showed Himself to them as God by fulfilling the prophecies, that is, testifying about Himself (being God) through the Bible's prophecies (which at the time was only the old testament). Christ Ahnsahnghong came to us and testified about Himself (being God) through the Bible's prophecies in the old testament, and their connection to the new testament and the prophecies of the last days. Like Jesus, He will be rejected by many, but my brothers and sisters will see that Ahnsahnhong is Christ- God in the flesh- and that He has revealed so many secrets to us that have opened our eyes and made us cry in happiness of His love for us.

Many people become baptized after hearing missionaries from the Church of God preach and spread the gospel, because they have been given spiritual eyes and ears to understand and so that they may be disciples of God. Not everyone is so blessed, but I hope that God blesses whoever reads this, so that the seed might be sown into their hearts and they might implore more detail about the good news. If anyone wishes to ask me any questions or Bible references to anything I've said above (as I don't have time, at 1:18 am now, to write them all out) I would love to receive e-mails, and I will most definitely reply to anyone's questions or debate. I would like to say- firstly- that I am a new member, of maybe a month now, so I may not have all the answers to your questions. But I go to church every day to study the Bible (which if you knew me before I knew God, you'd really trip out on!) so any questions you have, I will ask them of a pastor or preacher, and find the answers for you so that I may help blow the trumpet loud, and spread the good news of our Christ Ahnsahnghong so that more of our brothers and sisters can receive the promise of eternal life in Heaven (Amen). May God bless each and every one of you, from now on.

By the way, Creasy, you mentioned that there is no where in the Bible that we only celebrate Passover once a year. I suppose you may want to think about why Jewish people celebrate it once a year, on the 1st day of the 14 month of Nisan (according to the sacred calendar). I think it is because it is written throughout the entire bible (old testament and new) that the passover was celebrated, once a year, on a specific date and time. Please email me, I have the verses but it's 1:27 am and I really have to go to bed! But it's so hard to overlook so many questions that have answers! And so many assumptions that need to be corrected with proof from the Bible. Also, your quote of Galatians 4:9-11 sounds a lot like what I'm trying to say to you. The law of Moses is not to be followed. It is the new covenant, which has not abolished the law of Moses but *fulfilled* it, that we must follow. Thus, I believe the "days," the "festivals," and the "monthly new moon," may all be in reference to Pagan holidays, but I'm not sure! I'll look more into it. Please e-mail me soon, so that we can continue correspondance. If *anyone* has any questions, please e-mail me! I can't check this regularly, but I check my e-mail all the time! And I would even be more flattered if you would post my responses to your questions, so that the truth may be spread and so that people know that I'm not trying to brainwash you while no one's around to question me lol Now let me get off of this computer, it's 1:36 am. I've got to be up in a few hours! But God has blessed me to be able to share all of this with you. I hope to hear from you soon! God bless you!

by the way, my e-mail is InocentBystandr1@msn.com

Good night! =)

Yvone,

First off, I will like to say thanks for responding, I appreciate your feedback.

Second, I would like to point out your contradictions throughout your post compared to a fellow member of your church (Ashley)which this person have already given the reasons to how he knew the bible and his death. Hopefully, you'll get a chance to read this post because what would be the sense in posting here if you only expect to get response via emails.

Ok this may be a bit long but I will try to be very clear and get to the point.

1. You said:
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I don't think you understand that baptism is being annointed with the Holy Spirit (Jesus said that when he was baptized he was annoyed with the Holy Spirit, in the Bible).
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First off, Jesus was the son of God. He is God. The bible states that God himself impregnated Mary with his seed.

Matthew 1:20 clearly states that Mary conceived the Holy Spirit in her womb. He did not become the Holy Spirit at baptism. His baptism signified an awakening, he realised his true purpose. He was always the holy spirit in the womb of his mother Mary.

Which again Matthew 1:23 states they shall call his name Emmanuel which means "God with us".

If you or anyone else can point out in the scripture that states Jesus saying that he was annointed with the Holy Spirit at his baptism, that would be great because I couldn't find it, I probably over looked.

2. you said:
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It is said in the new testament, regarding the second coming of Christ, that he will reign on King David's throne. At the time that prophecy was written, King David was dead. So how could the second coming Christ do that?
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You forget to mention that King David may have died before Jesus's time but his throne was there after his (David's) death. Through his son Solomon. You can not deny God's promise to the tribe of Judah and the throne of David because it is written that the clearly "the septure shall not depart from judah, till shiloh comes".

Before the fall of the kingdom of Judah, it is written in the bible and recorded in Ethiopian history the Queen of Sheba (Queen Mekeda) saught the wisdom of solomon. Though the bible gives brief information with very to no no detail about what went on at her stay in Jerusalem, it is recorded in Ethiopian history that Solomon married her and gotten her pregnant. She then went back to Ethiopia where she found out that she was carrying his son.

After giving birth to his child, she named him Menelik meaning Son of the wise man. When he reached adulthood, he then went to Jerusalem to seek his father and his wisdom. To make a long story short, he travelled back to Ethiopia and took along the Ark of the Covenant and the first born sons of the Levitite that served King Solomon.

Which is how the throne of David was established in Ethiopia.

History proves it. How else would the house of David rule in Ethiopia? If you deny this then you are denying facts and a 2000 yr old history of a country and basically stating that they are liars.

You may say, well it's not in the bible, but the bible isn't detailed.

I would advise you to look of Ethiopian history and the history of judaism and christianity there as well.

Perhaps you can ask your preacher why is Ethiopian christianity one of the oldest from the time of the apostles form of christianity without interuption from outsiders and without roman influence ever to exist and still exist till this day.


Asks your preacher about ACTS 8:27
which is how Christianity was introduced to Ethiopia.

You see, Ethiopia knew God through Judaism and they also knew Christ through Christianity which they practiced it's original form since that time of introduction.


To be continued...

Ok let me continue. It is weird how your church would say that Revelations refers to the "spiriutal" and not the
"physical". Apparently, the prophecies in revelations is dealing with the physical since most of ahnsahnong's so called fulfillment of prophecy is of this physical world.

In order for it to be prophecy fulfilled, it would have to be witnessed by those of the living correct? So called prophecies being fulfilled in the spirital wouldn't mean anything since no one can witness it.


3. you said:

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Christ Ahnsahnhong established spiritual Zion; that being the Church of God (we follow the new covenant, which is not just "Jewish customs" because they were done differently in the old testament, but Jesus in the new testament- when he changed these customs- he said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.
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Now let's see. As I mentioned before in regards to Ethiopa practicing Christianity which in the bible the Ethiopian Enuch learned, why would anything change from that time?

They practiced and observed the old testament laws as well as the new testament laws. They knew very well of the old laws seing that more than half of them are Jews (which are called Falasha) in what way was the original form of Christianity done away with as far as Christianity and Christian churches in the East?

If you or anyone else can show me some information in regards to that, please i'm open for the information.

4. you said:
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God willed him to be baptized at the age of 30, to continue with its fulfillment. He established spirital Zion, for those of us formerly lost in spiritual Babylon, so that we may be saved and have eternal life
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Ok God willed this man to be baptized by a church which doesn't practice the laws of God correctly?

Please stop trying to decorate this man's life to make it sound special. You say he ascended back to heaven and did not kill himself or die of natural causes.

Well apparently, someone knows different than you because a memeber of your church (Ashley) who posted above says that he DID died of natural causes. He supposely had a stroke and suffered from a brain clot or something similar to that.

Also, I don't know what you've been told but it's said that he already knew the bible.

I would again, advise you to look into who you're worshipping. I'm sure in the 1980's suffering from a stroke and clot on the brain, he would know how much time he had left from the doctors telling him.

Also, you mentioned Jesus being a christian. No Jesus is NOT a christian. The religion is about him, he doesn't need to worship himself as mere men do.

That is similar to saying Buddah is a Buddhist or Allah is a Muslim.

Jesus may have changed the laws but he was not a christian.

Your post is too long to respond to and it also contains scripture so let me wrap this up.

1.Do your research on the Ethiopian Christianity and it's origin and the churches practice.

2. Get the real facts on ahnsahonghong's life. I can guarantee that you do not know who named him ahnsahnghong. It sure wasn't his parents.

3. Please try to compare notes with fellow followers of your church before you go off and type things that totally contradict their writings as well as the doctrine of your church.

If what I know about your church contradicts what you know, then something is definately wrong.

Too many loop holes my dear.

- James

I have a lot to say to this, and I will respond soon (I have to finish getting ready for work, but I'll be there soon to reply!)

I may not have all the answers, again, but I will reply with everything I can!

As for the e-mail thing, I don't know this website by heart like I know my e-mail, and most of my time online is spent at work and in the few minutes I spend online at home before I crash out- I go to work, then to gym, then to church until very late. So forgive me! But I will reply soon!

No problem! I would love to respond to everything written here, but there is no time!

As for contradictions in my post, I will repeat that I am a new member, and I do not know Ashley personally and how long she has been my sister nor what she has been told. I know a small deal of Ahnsahnghong, as you would know a small deal of my life- if anything- other than one I tell you, but the things I do know I fully believe. So I can't say that what I say of him is any more truth than what Ashley has said of him, and I'm sorry for that fact!

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I will review the study on the prophecy of King David, with detail and quotes from the bible.
Hosea 3:5 - Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. They shall fear the Lord and His goodness in the latter days.

[When this was written, please keep in mind that King David was dead. It is easy to say there will be another King David and they should look for him and God, but why would God tell them to look for a physical king? No man can give life, eternal, but Christ- who is God in the flesh.]

Isaiah 9:7 - Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end. Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom to order it and establish it with judgement and justice from that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

[This is part of the prophecy of concerning Jesus Christ to come as King Davidm as you've read in Isaiah 9:7. He will reign on the throne of David. But understand that if King Solomon is sitting on the throne, it is King Solomon's throne. Likewise, no one would say that this is Bill Clinton's seat in the White House while Bush is the president. Bill Clinton cannot have a seat in the White House as president while Bush is president, can he? It has to have a spiritual meaning to it (or otherwise non-literal). I hope this answers your question at number 2 in your reply.]

Luke 1:31 - And behold you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call him Jesus.

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.

[This is direct reference to a prophecy concerning second coming Christ, which He fulfilled. As you know, Luke was after Jesus, so it could not be concerning Jesus, but as Jesus was prophecized to be King David, it is said again of second coming Christ, in Luke 1:31-32. Clearly there is something about David's throne that God wants us to look at to understand His throne. If not, he could have used any king in the bible. Why not King Solomon? Nebuchednezzar? Sorry if the spelling is off on that one!]
2 Samuel 5:1 - Then all the tribes of Israel came to David at Hebron and spoke, saying "Indeed we are your bone and your flesh.

Also, in time past, when Saul was king over us, you were the one who led Israel out and brought them in; and the Lord said to you, 'You shall shepard My people Israel, and be ruler over Israel.'"

Therefore all the elders of Israel came to the king at Hebron, and King David made a covenant with them at Hebron before the Lord. And they annointed David king over Israel.

David was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty years.

[As you may have noticed, this is a parallel to Jesus Christ (who I assume everyone here accepts as God...) But even more accurately, it is a parallel to second coming Christ, as His children ("Israelites," though Jesus said to spread the gospel to Gentiles, so metaphorical Israelites) will come to Him and accept Him as they did in 2 Samuel 5:1. King David (or Jesus Christ; God) lead Israel out and brought them in, when Saul was ruler over them. Likewise, God lead them out of Egypt. Jesus lead them out of sin. He is the good shepard and shall be ruler over Israel. But was Jesus a literal ruler over Israel? Of course not. He was a carpenter. Can you deny the metaphorical (or spiritual) meaning behind this? It was a prophecy, which God came in the flesh to fulfill so that His children may know Him when they see Him]

Luke 3:21 - When all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also was baptized; and while He prayed, the heaven was opened.

And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased."
Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli...

[Luke 3:21, which is the above verse, goes on to list His genealogy, which is not important to anything I am trying to say here other than the fact that He is the Son of God. But addressing 3:22, the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him. You will find in this passage that God, Jehova, is the Father (which the Jews know by the old testament). God, Jesus, is the Son of Man (also called the Son of God, alternately, many many times in the Bible). God, second coming Christ, is the Holy Spirit. Most Christians believe this (the trinity) and the three ages of man being the age of the Father, the age of the Son, and the age of the Holy Spirit (which most will testify we live in today! Which is why most Christians pray in the name of the Holy Spirit, am I not correct? They pray to second coming Christ for salvation, as God has said He will bring when He returns. But this is another in-depth study I would love to go into once this one has been understood!). My point is, Jesus is not the Holy Spirit, He is the Son of Man (or Son of God). That does not make Him any less God.]

Matthew 1:20 - But while he [Joseph] thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit."

[Reading the passage, it says Jesus is OF the Holy Spirit. Not THE Holy Spirit. Is that incorrect? As for Matthew 1:23, His name being God with us declares that He is Christ, or God in the Flesh. And we recognize Him as such, without a doubt! But there is a second coming Christ, as most Christians know...]
Luke 4:18 - "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has annointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed;
To problaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
[As you may have figured, these are the words of Jesus Christ. According to Luke 4:18-19, When the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, he was annointed to preach the gospel. But as we know from Luke 3:21-23, he was baptized- at which point the Holy Spirit descended upon him. So thus he must have been annointed, and knowing this he went on the preach the gospel. I hope you can see the relation, as that is the combination of four verses very physically close to eachother that testify to his baptism being annointment with the Holy Spirit.]

[So the only thing missing in the fulfillment of this prophecy is the reign of Kind David for 40 years. Jesus only preached the gospel for 3. But when Christ Ahnsahnghong began his ministry and teachings of the passover and scriptures at the age of 30- which is when he was baptized- he preached the gospel until the time he died, which was in 1985. Whether he died from his own ascension or if he died from a stroke, I don't think that makes him any less the second coming of Christ. As it were, there are many many other prophecies that testify to this (such as the prophecy of Melchizedek, which if you want I can go into!), but concerning this one alone I think it is fair to say we accept Jesus as the first coming of Christ. But Jesus did not just ascend to Heaven. He was killed, crucified on the cross. Many disciples lost faith in Jesus because they didn't see how God could allow himself to be killed by man. Likewise, I think it is even more exceptional that Christ Ahnsahnghong died of a stroke. That would mean if he were just a man, he had absolutely no control of that. But he fulfilled the prophecy in dying. He predicted his death 4 years in advance. I'm no doctor, but I don't think you can predict your death 4 years in advance by a stroke! I think if we can predict strokes, we'd stop getting surprise attacked by them! lol)

Hebrews 9:28 - so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

[This verse testifies to the second coming of Christ, and that he will give us salvation. There are two other studies: The Hidden Manna and The Seal of God which testify to what that salvation is, and you will come to see that Christ Ahnsahnghong has brought these things back with him.]
John 5:36 - But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish- the very works that I do- bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.

And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

[In John 5:36 the works which the Father has given Him to finish are the prophecies- which He did- so that we would bear witness to Him and understand that He was sent by God. In 5:37, it says the Father Himself has testified about Him, which at the time meant the old testament. So it is very important for us to look into the old testament, to understand that Jesus was prophecized. Likewise you will see that the new testament bears witness to the second coming of Christ. In 5:38 it clearly states that we will reject Christ. We rejected Him once, as Jesus, when He came to give LIFE.]

Revelations 3:22 - "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

John 6:60 - Therefore many of His [Jesus'] disciples, when they heard this, said, "This is a hard saying; who can understand it?"

When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, "Does this offend you?

"What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."

[Ahnsahnghong has come to preach to us, spread the gospel of eternal life. Those with spiritual ears will hear what he says to the churches, truly hear him. Those with physical ears will not. For when Christ came as Jesus, he proved himself through the Scriptures, so his disciples became such and followed him.]

Also, Revelations 2:17 - "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it."

[A new name. Think about it. Second coming Christ, without a doubt, must have a new name. It has been prophecized in the book of Revelations, in the verse above!]

Ecclesiastes 1:9 - That which has been is what will be, that which is done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.

Is there anything of which it may be said, "See, this is new?" It has already been in ancient times before us.

There is no remembrance of former things, nor will there be any remembrance of things that are to come by those who will come after."

[Wow... how powerful were those very words. History repeats itself- the very origin of the phrase, right? lol. There is no remembrance of former things, nor will there be any remembrance of things that are to come by those who will come after. He just told us history repeats itself, and why it does. (ouch! A testimony to our own ignorance in his second coming, and the ignorance of those before us in his first coming!) Christ has returned, God in the flesh, in the name of Ahnsahnghong. We can choose to reject him, for we will only fulfill this prophecy of history repeating itself! I choose to embrace him, as Jesus' disciples embraces him, for I hear what he says to the churches, and I hope all of you do now, too!]
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As for "Ethiopian Christianity," and Acts 8:27, I am making a note of it now in my notebook, and I will ask them about it when I go to Church tonight! I will also print out some research from the internet, so that I have some historical materials to go by when I ask. Hopefully by the time I get home (I'm usually home around 10:30 pm PST) you will have read this, maybe have more questions, and I will be back to tell you what I have learned!

As for your argument on fulfillment of the prophecies, I don't really understand what you're saying- but I think it's because you didn't understand what I was trying to say because I didn't have time to say everything clearly and detailed the first time. Hopefully everything I've said above will give you some insight, but if your question still exists afterward please try and explain your question to me better, so I can answer you! Personally, from what I see, you have been told that our church says Revelations refers to the spiritual. Spiritual and metaphorical are not too far off from eachother.

Isaiah 9:1 - Nevertheless the gloom will not be upon her who is distressed, as when at first He lightly esteemed the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward more heavilly oppressed her, by the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, in Galilee of the Gentiles.

The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in the land of the shadow of death, upon them a light has been shines.

[This is said literally. It is a prophecy that most of us Christians know Jesus Christ by, is that wrong?]

Matthew 4:13 - And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali,

that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaish the prophet, saying:

"The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, by the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles:

The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light; and upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death Light has dawned."

From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

[As you can see, the great light was the gospel which Jesus taught for 3 years. The old testament was the literal prophecy, and because the Israelites looked only to the literal they could not see that he was God in the flesh. But in the new testament it has been revealed to us that Jesus fulfilled this prophecy, and that the light it was metaphorical for the gospel. It can be said that the light was a physical sign. But they missed the spiritual sign- that is the sign that called to their spirit- which was the gospel.]

[But maybe your question is different from what I am explaining. As for the second post you made, I will also reply in a separate post, but after I get some work done in the office! lol I've been writing this for about 2 hours now, and haven't done a thing my boss has asked me to]

As for Zion vs. Babylon (literal and metaphorical, or physical and spiritual what have you) that is a long long long study that connects with a few other studies you should probably review first. But I will do my best to explain it to you without that, and hope that you will see the connection regardless.

Isaiah 33:20 - Look upon Zion, the city of our appointed feasts.

[I am debating on whether or not I should go through this. This verse in itself is incomplete, and goes on to talk about Jerusalem, but that is another study which should be done first, or else you will think that I am omitting things from the verse that contradict what I am about to say, when in reality they actually full support it 100%. I suppose I will leave it to you then, James. Would you like me to first review the study of Jerusalem, and then Zion? I guarantee if you allow me that, it will make things much much clearer! That and I am worried that I won't get any work done if I go on right now lol. I don't want to be fired. Plus, what you have heard so far about King David is a lot to absorb and a lot to carefully consider, so maybe it would be too much to go into that directly afterward. But I promise that I will tonight or tomorrow, if you want me to! Or this weekend would even be better, then I would have plenty of time to sit down and write everything out for you, as I do not have work on weekends. But I would like to clear up that our Church is not the only place that can be called Zion. When we go into that study, I will show you all the requirements of Zion. But you will come to see that, to my knowledge, these requirements (in their entirety, not just one or two or five) are found in our church. The Church of God.
As for your question of baptism by a church that doesn't practice the laws of God correctly, I can answer that simply right now. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, was He not? John the Baptist was not following of "laws of God" correctly, though I think you have a misunderstanding. John the Baptist held the priesthood of Aaron (Judaic Law). But as we know, the new testament is the fulfillment of the old testament, the new law is the order of Melchizedek and the old of Aaron. So technically, you can say that Jesus was bapized by a man who was not following the "correct laws of God," since that is the term you are using to describe the preisthood of Melchizedek. This is of little importance, however, in both the case of Jesus Christ and Christ Ahnsahnghong. For they are both Christ and in that same breath God as well. From what I have *heard* I think on this forum or maybe another that claims our church is a cult, Christ Ahnsahnghong was baptized by Seventh Day Adventists. But I think it's safe to say that none of his teachings really relate to their beliefs, with the exception of the belief that Saturday is the sabbath day (according to the sacred calendar, which the Israelites used when Sabbath was appointed to them by God Jehova).

Anyhow, I wish to know so much about Christ Ahnsahnghong, but there is so much to learn it's hard to know where to start! The Bible is such a big book, and I go to study it every day and still I am not as far as I wish I could be. But every lesson is a treasure to my spirit, and I am so blessed to know God. I hope that you all will be blessed to know him as well.

I would like to note that Christianity wasn't widely accepted until after Jesus died. Likewise, our church spread in the same manner. This is not odd or uncommon. Da Vinci wasn't great until he died either. I think Alexander was, but you'll find that is another prophecy of God written in the book of Daniel =)

As for Jesus being a Christian... lol I'm sorry I didn't explain myself. A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ. Someone who does as he does. It is not the sole idea to worship him, but to do as he has done. Jesus showed us what to do, to be good Christians. Did he not say do unto others as I have done to you? Does it not say in the bible (I think in John) that Christ is the example? Thus, following his own example, I think he can technically be called a Christian. Or simply one who is following the order of Melchizedek. Also, you must understand that Jesus, being a Jew, was not just a religious thing (by the order of Aaron) but also a cultural thing. Today, Judaism is more a religion than a culture, but back then it was also an ethnicity. That is why Jews were said to have specific characteristics- physically- because it was not just a religion back then but rather the religion was a part of the culture. Jews today sometimes consider themselves to be a culture, but there has been a lot of mixing and thus these characteristics are not as defined as they were before. This was something I learned in my humanities class, in I think 10th or 11th grade. I'm sorry you did not get the opportunity to learn that. But now you do!

I hope this post wasn't too long to respond to. I have taken time to respond to every single thing you have asked me in detail, and I should hope you would give me feedback on what I have said. Please keep in mind that nothing that the Church of God claims does not come from the Bible- the scriptures- that is, the word of God Jehova. Anything I will say concerning God and Christ I will back up with the word of God, unless I feel that you already know these things or that they have occurred in history (things such as "Jesus died on the cross"- I don't think scripture is necessary there, I think we all know that.)

1. I will check into Ethiopian Christianity and ask someone to explain it to me.
2. I will ask for documents concerning Ahnsahnghongs life, though honestly I don't think that I can trust a book or a piece of paper with "facts" on Him anymore than I can trust Ashley's word or yours, can I? Maybe I can try and contact a relative, but I don't know that I can trust their word either!
3. I do not need to compare notes with my brothers and sisters. The words I have been given, I full accept, and I do not know if they contradict what she has said but then again I don't know all that she has said! If you could give me a list of points she made which I contradicted, I will be able to tell you if you are wrong in your assumption to assume it was a contradiction, or if it was something that I was not told. If the case is the latter, I will most definitely bring it to the attention of my pastor, so that I may find the truth!

God bless you!

Hi Yvonne,

Thank you for responding. I'm getting alot of feedback from you which is good. Before I respond to both of your post in regards to King David and Jesus, I will quickly like to bring up a few key topics that your church teaches.

I read everything you have just posted three times and no where in there did it indicate that ahnsahnghong came in secret.


You have shown to me key elements that is suppose to connect ahnsahong with prophecy of him being the second coming as well as him fulfilling these prophecies.

Now who did ahnsahngong connect those same prophecies and scruptures to? Did he connect them to himself or did he connect it to someone else?

Your church have set themselves up with story afetr story after story. Eventually someone is goign to strip away the BS and realize the truth, which is why there are some ex-members.

Now ask yourself, if this man was to preach EXACTLY what you have just typed above, word for word..how exactly would he have came in secret? lol


Your church teaches that ahnsanhong came in secret and no one knew who he was until after he died, am I right or wrong?


If ahnsahngong specifically said that the second coming is to come back to restore passover and fulfill the prophecy of King David while teaching:

1. HOW it will be fulfilled.

2. WHEN it will be done.

3. WHERE it will be fulfilled (the location).

4. WHO would fulfill it and the CHARACTERISTICS of the person who would fulfill it. (Basically saying he would not be a person you would suspct it to be...an unattractive man. Born in a shabby house amongst gentiles.)

5. THE NEW NAME of the second coming.

6. The description of the TRUE CHURCH.

7. The CHARACTERISTICS of the "TRUE CHURCH".

8. The Cross and WHY he didn't have one in OR on his church.

There's more but EVERYTHING you have mentioned, ahnsaonghong HAD to have preached when he was alive and there will be no way that no one WOULDN'T know it was himself he was refering to.

You mean to tell me that it's so easy for you to point out scriptures to me that links ahnsahnghong to him being the second coming and when ahnsahnghong himself preached and taught the SAMETHING when he was alive, NO ONE knew?

I've already had a sit-in with a preacher in your church Yvonne and he himself said that no one knew who he was until after he died.

I've also asked him if ahnsahngong said if he was God, and the answer was no, he didn't say he was God.

How can a preacher speak of the new covenant and not mention who will be the one to so call restore it?

Did ahnsahngong come in secret?

No he didn't. If he did, prove it because the words are plain and simple and clear as water.

You also mentioned that he predicted his own death. Hmm, now WHY would ANY go in front of their congregation one morning and say.." Oh by the way, I'm going to die in 4 years".

Who did he tell that to, a personal assistant, he parents, he congregation?

Exactly who were his words of dying in four years directed to?

You just don't come out and say things like that without ANYONE asking HOW?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DIE?

or

WHY ARE YOU GOING TO DIE?

Anyone that is reading this post, I want you to do a test. Tell 4-5 people out of the blue "I'm going to die in 4 years" and see how they react to it.

Pay attention to response you get from them.

The first response would most likely be "What? what are you talking about How are you going to die?"

So ahnsanghong "prophecied" his own death" to whom?

You know when you analyze this garbage, it really doesn't add up. Your church mix stories with scripture. It must be good to drink lemonade.

Yvonne, I will definately respond to your post in regards to King David. I will not avoid your post like most people will do.

Thanks again,

- James

Hello Yvonne,

In regarsd to King David and Jesus.

First let's take a look at the titles applied to Jesus in Revelations.
"King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Lion of the Tribe of Judah". Those same titles were applied to the throne of David itself. The Lion from earliest times has been a symbol of strength and royalty.

It was placed on the Tribe of Judah because it was the royal tribe of the Hebrew nation. ALL the kings of Judah were therefore called "The Lion of the Tribe of Judah". This was one of the titles of King David and King Solomon.

You have mentioned earlier that the throne of King David was to seat the Christ, and you have clearly pointed out no "physical king" can give eternal life only the man who will sit on the throne of David.

Why would all of the prophecies relate to the "physical" except for him sitting on the throne of David? When Jesus was here, he didn't sit on the throne of David but it was prophecied that he would when he returns.

Not in "heaven" in some spiritual symbolic way but in reality.

At the time of the Babylonian captivity, the Kingdom of Judah remained active and alive in Ethiopia. David's throne is offical no matter who sits on it because God says so, it's in the bible that God made an eternal covenant with David in regards to his throne and the Tribe of Judah.

However, you seem to have forgotten that part of scriptute. Why do you think the titles "King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Lion of the Tribe of Judah" was placed on that tribe and the kings who represent that?

The House of Judah in Ethiopia specifically used those titles in order to bear witness that the kingdom did not fall and remained alive and well.

Am I making this up? If you think that I am then you can do what you must to find out if I am wrong.

In the bible in Jeremiah 22:30

God says.."write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days; for no more shall a man of his seed (Jechoniah's)prosper, sitting upon the throne DAVID(not Solomon's throne, not his own throne..but DAVID's. As you mentioned earlier in regards to the president Clinton comment)and ruling in Judah."

Different rulers sat on David's throne, yet it was still called David's throne. That being said, it appears that Christ wouldn't be siting on David's throne because the covenant appears to have stopped with Jechoniah.

However, as I mentioned earlier in regards to Menelik, son of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba this lineage was not broken seeing how Solomon is the son of David and Menelik is the son of Solomon.

At the time Jesus walked the earth, the throne of David was not in Jerusalem for him to sit on it, so pelase do not say that he sat on it in heaven because it was in Ethiopia.

Let's deal with reality here, not stories and fairy tales.

I will continue later, must get back to work.

- James

You know, James, if you have really sat down with a preacher from the Church of God there is no point in me wasting my time rewriting every study out for you. You have asked a lot of things of me in one short breath, because you do not understand the complexities of the Bible, and you think that by just reading it (as opposed to analyzing it) that you clearly understand what it is saying. But any great work of literature (Catcher in the Rye, for example) has a symbolic meaning and metaphors within it which you must specifically disect and examine closely to understand. God confirms this through the Bible, when Jesus speaks in parables. But that is so that those who are his true children will hear, and those who are not are closed off from the kingdom of heaven.

So not to be rude, but if you have sat down with a preacher you have had the opportunity to ask every single question you want, of someone who is of real authority to answer. But instead, you want me to give you all the answers after only being a member for a month. Do you think that it is possible for man to understand all the secrets hidden within the Bible in a month? If so, you underestimate God, and think too highly of yourself!

The worst part is that there are so many secrets revealed to us, and if you see them *first* and foremost before you go on to complain about the name of Christ, you will then truly believe that only Christ himself could have revealed all of these things to you (as it is written in the Bible).

One of the many prophecies that testify concerning second coming Christ is King David. But there are many more and he has fulfilled them all. You must continue to study to have complete faith, for faith cannot be proved in one prophecy in this age of skepticism. The old testament testifies of Jesus Christ. At the time of Jesus Christ, there was no new testament. After Jesus' death, the new testament (written by Jesus' disciples) declared that Jesus fulfilled those prophecies. All Christians believe it without a doubt. Likewise, in the book of Revelations and also in the new testament there are prophecies concerning second coming Christ. The King David prophecy says He has to preach for 37 years, right? So is it so wild to consider that Christ Ahnsahnghong might not claim to be second coming Christ because such a thing might've inspired a violent reaction from the people (not unlike what happened to Jesus) and thus stop Him from fulfilling the prophecy? You forget, the flesh is what hinders us. Likewise, God suffers in the flesh because he, too, is hindered as Christ (God in the flesh). If that was not so, Jesus would have no died on the cross for the remission of our sins. He could've easilly pulled a hair from his head and said there, I forgive you.

As for there being no cross in the church, I think it's a pretty basic principle to all Christians that we are not to celebrate false idols or gods. Hanging the cross anywhere is celebrating it as an idol, and many Christians use it to represent God. But nowhere in the Bible does it say anything along the lines of "Keep the image of the cross in remembrance of me."

Personally I don't know exactly what Christ Ahnsahnghong preached, because I wasn't with him, and I certainly don't know who he preached it to. I also have not studied everything, as he had revealed so much to us, so how could I possibly tell you? All I can say is that despite your efforts to "attack" my religion and point out the "flaws," my faith remains firm and I hope that God will have mercy on all of us (including you), in the last days. I also hope that one day you will have the priviledge to celebrate the passover, the new covenant, so that you may receive the seal of God (eternal life) and be saved from the destruction and plagues of His judgement day.

Oh, and just a note: The Church of God is said to instill fear in it's members, but that is farthest from the truth! Unlike most Christians, we happily look forward to the last days, and cannot wait to be in Heaven with Him. While the U.N. trembles at North Korea's moves, the Church of God smiles and eagerly awaits.

May God bless you all. I do hope that if you have any questions, you will take them to the Church of God, and you may ask a preacher all you want. Though I warn you, you may want to set aside maybe 3 days for all that you have asked of me which I haven't yet explained. As for me, I don't have that kind of time to preach to a brick wall. It is said in the Bible that you should not waste time on one who refuses to see, lest you run out of time and fail to spread the word to those waiting to hear it.

Yvonne,

For me to accept what you see as truth, I would have to believe in the stories and fairy tales told to me about this man ahnsahnghong.

Simply relating scripture to this guy isn't the hardest thing to do because it has been done plenty of times before.

I may have sat down with a preacher from your church however as you mentioned why would they want to waste their time revealing secrets to a brick wall?

Now i'm the one that is looked at as blind because I do not subscribe myself to stories and fairy tales made out to make him as though he's someone special.

Sorry my dear, that is not happening. I'm not here to change your mind or "lead you astray" i'm just here to say what I have to say. Why should I worship a man that OTHER MEN say is the second coming?

You say couldn't it be possible if he kept his identity a secret from not being killed. Well his identity was revealed through his "revealing of secrets". That alone is a "give-me".

Well Jesus kept his identity a secret and he still got crucified. He refered to himself as the Son of Man, not the Son of God.

His disciples refered to him as the Son of God. I'm sure ahnsahngong revealed himself to whatever disciples but that would go against the story of no one knowing who he was until after he died.

Stories like that I am refering to Yvonne. I'm sure you've heard them.

Him calling hismelf "the Holy Spirit" is a give-me.

Him baptizing people in his name is a give me and if he didn't baptize people in his name then the church must have changed his rules on baptizing people.

You say studying scripture would reveal him being the second coming to me. No it's not "studying scripture" it's believing in those stories and fairy tales without question, which alot of people have done that would allow you to believe that.

You mention me "attacking" your religion but your religion does the same attacking.

It's ok for them to do it but when someone is defending themselves, it's persecution...please Yvonne, give me a break.

You try to break down and debunk everyoen else's beliefs but when the tables are turned, it's persecution.

If you don't want to see the inconsistancies, then that's your business all I did was point it out.

Everything I have mentioned is history and truth. I didn't add anything.

The questins that I have asked are what I see as common sense questions. Especially since Jesus said that there will be many to come in his name and there will be those who will say there is Christ.

Why would you believe mere men saying who christ is if he didn't say that himself? I thought you said that you wouldn't believe any not even his family member?

But yet you believe a man who points out scripture about who you should worship as God.


Oh well, no need to conern yourself with who I give praise to. Thanks, but no thanks.

Well I appreciate the friendly chat, I know that I didn't offend you in anyway because of your strong faith and if I did I apologize.

- James

The King David prophecy says He has to preach for 37 years, right? So is it so wild to consider that Christ Ahnsahnghong might not claim to be second coming Christ because such a thing might've inspired a violent reaction from the people (not unlike what happened to Jesus) and thus stop Him from fulfilling the prophecy? You forget, the flesh is what hinders us.
--------------------------

That's a nice way to sugar coat him not revealing himself but no. If it's prophecy then nothing can stop it from happening not even man(flesh).

Whatever is prophecied in the bible is God's will. If ahnsahnghong was god then nothing could have stopped him from fulfilling his duties.

It was prophecied that Jesus would be crucified and die and he did. How would ahnsahnghong's so called prophecy be interupted by him saying he's the second coming.

First of all, his name is ahnsahnghong. Enough said about that.

If he was the true second coming then not even being put in jail by police would stop prophecy from happening.

It was prophecied that the world will end, which means no matter what man does, it would still happen.


- James

That is the sad part. What I am trying to express to you is that regardless of Christ Ahnsahnghong's history and "fairy tales," the truth that he unlocks in the Bible- which once you know it, is almost blatant- is what reveals him. Forget about the prophecies for a moment. Just regarding the kingdom of Heaven and our Elohim God... Oh I wish I could explain it all to you. Passover as the seal to eternal life in the last days. It is written as such in the Bible... But we ignore it. We celebrate it at what we think is the correct time. In essence, we change God's laws and set times. I don't know, I want to tell you so much regarding Passover and the Tree of Life and the Hidden Manna and so much more! But I feel as though I would be wasting my time, because regardless you will not listen to that because it comes from a "man." But when you see everything that has been revealed by him, including the parable of the Wedding Banquet... It will blow your mind. The biggest problem is that we do not read the bible to unlock secrets. We read the bible from the beginning to the end. But understand that many things mentioned in the new testament refer to things of the old testament for a reason, and to fully understand them we must look back to the old testament. Only God can unlock the Bible like that.

You ask too many questions without the patience of getting the entire answer and with the proof. Do you know how long that takes? Do you know how long that takes me, who has to spend hours looking through my notes so that I can give you the best answer to my ability without leaving anything out, and while testifying to whatever I say with scriptures? The problem with Christians today is that they don't realize that most of the Bible should not be taken at face value. That there is a reason for just about everything, and that there will always be another verse that relates back to that to connect the dots, so to speak. A preacher would be more than happy to sit down with you and study with you, but you must have the patience to continue to come back, because it can't all be done in one day- there is way too much concerning the Bible, even in a month I haven't learned everything, and I go every day!

Jesus did not keep his identity secret, according to John 4:25-26:

The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
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another example from John 8:58:

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
----

Why do you think they threw stones at him? Was this modern day elementary school? No. The penalty for claiming I am, which only God Jehova can do, is death- many times they would punish people by stoning them to death. That was a great blasphemy to them, because they did not know he was God. He gave testimony to himself and no one believed him but his disciples. That doesn't mean he kept it a secret. These are only two times when he has claimed to be God, according to the Bible. Why do you think he was crucified by the Jews? Because he claimed to be their God! I thought all Christians at least knew that much. Even non-Christians know that; The Passion of the Christ was pretty big in the box office...

Personally, I don't know if Christ Ahnsahnghong claimed to be second coming Christ, whether he alluded to it through scripture (meaning some would get it, some would not), or rather he kept it a secret entirely. That doesn't matter to me. That is of little importance. Through the scripture *we* recognize him to be God. Just as the disciples of Jesus Christ recognized him as such. Do you dare call them blasphemers and dupes? I would like to know what gives you a serious string of faith to believe in Jesus Christ as God? Most Christians don't even know why they know he is God, just that he is! Most Christians don't know scripture, never picked up a Bible on their own, and let preachers tell them what this and that means but never why- never further confirming it with more scripture. You say that we are good Bible flippers. I say Christians these days don't flip enough. Read it. It's there for you. That is why God allowed it to stay intact and to it's true form all of these years. (They found the Dead Sea scrolls. And guess what? It matches up to what we have today.) That is unheard of. It must be the work of God.

Personally, I don't know anything of him baptizing people at all; I have never heard that. Did you think that maybe no one believed he was Christ until he died because his death was the fulfillment of the prophecy regarding King David? As for whatever story you're referring to about no one knowing who he was until he died, that is a blatant generalization. Exaggeration. No one, as in no where near the numbers today, knew who he was. You have got to be kidding me if you really think he could have had disciples to begin with without having revealing the truth of his identity. I personally have no idea if he referred to himself as the Holy Spirit. I think that if he were to preach the prophecy of King David and say that second coming Christ would come to completely fulfill this, it would not outright be saying he is the Holy Spirit. Also, there is the prophecy concerning Melchizedek. Which has nothing to do with stories and "fairy tales," just blatant facts. There are prophecies which are concerning factual things. Personally, the fact that Jesus rode in on a donkey is not exactly a fact you can testify to- it's not like you were there. What is your proof that he fulfilled the prophecies? Because the Bible says so? When Jesus Christ came, they didn't have the new testament to verify that he did do these things- which I might add, were written by his disciples. There are many prophecies, you cannot judge him as the Christ by one. For the second coming of Christ will fulfill them all, and has. Does it make little sense that we have no proof that he has done these things? That we must rely on the words of his disciples, as gentiles did after the death of Jesus Christ when the disciples went on to preach of him?

You are so misguided by the flesh, thinking oh, how can this Korean guy be Christ? Jesus was a Jew. Well first of all, second coming Christ will be from a country east of the island of Patmos, which is where the book of Revelations was written as testified by Apostle John. Patmos is in Israel. So for all of those who are waiting for the second coming of Jesus Christ, you may want to read that again. Christ, the Holy Spirit will be coming. Not Jesus Christ- the Son of Man (God). Sorry = (

As for my religion attacking, there are certain things regarding that which are incredibly deep. Prophecies concerning the Roman Catholic Church, and it's "children," basically all 850 Christian denominations... It is a testimony to Christ Ahnsahnghong (Amen.) Perhaps you should one day go back to the Church of God, and ask them to explain to you the prophecy of Daniel 2, Daniel 7 & 8, and Revelations 13, 17, & 18. Daniel 2 sets the scene. Daniel 7 & 8 gives detail. And Revelations 12, 17, 18 give so much more detail and confirm it all. Note that these are three different studies, but if you can convince a preacher to do them all in one sitting (you may want to go early in the day!) I assure you there is no way to deny it. History proves it. Do not let the preacher only tell you Daniel 2. Do not only let him tell you 2, 7 & 8. A person with such disbelief needs *all* of it, because Revelations 13, 17, & 18 completely confirm and prove it to be true with the amount of detail used, but you can't understand that until you've reviewed the first three. So I would say look into it! If you don't agree after that, that's too bad. But I don't think there is any way you could possibly deny it when you hear that.

I think it's safe to say that your disagreement is far from persecution.
"The questins that I have asked are what I see as common sense questions. Especially since Jesus said that there will be many to come in his name and there will be those who will say there is Christ."

This statement is so off it's not even funny... The questions that you have asked are not common sense questions, they all relate to the Bible and must be proved with scriptures before I can make any claims to answer them. And how can you follow that statement with a sentence like "Especially since Jesus said that there will be many to come." That is a non-sequitor if I've ever heard one. Most of what you ask is fragmented, just like that. Your thoughts don't connect, and that's why my responses are always so long- because you are addressing so many different subjects and you don't even realize it. Your questions and concerns jump from place to place but you assume it's all one big question with one simple answer. Nothing about the Bible is simple, James. Thousands of years ago Israeli preists could quote scripture from front to back like it was nothing, they knew where everything was and exactly what it said. Even being able to do that, did any of them recognize Jesus to be Christ? No. They didn't. They crucified him. Why? Because they did not understand the Bible was not to be taken strictly literally. They kept waiting for the great light to shine down on them when that great light was the gospel that Jesus preached.

The fact that you don't understand certain prophecies doesn't necessarilly make *you* blind. Some will see the truth, some will not. Some will see the truth sooner, some will see the truth later. So it's really not my place to judge you, I could not possibly know if you will or will not, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. But that is why I say God bless you, in hopes that you will see the truth eventually! Whether you think Christ Ahnsahnghong is "special" or not, does not matter. It will be hard to accept second coming Christ, no matter who he is, when he comes (if he hasn't already!). And it is unfortunate for all of us. I understand that you're not trying to change my mind, and neither am I, but let's be honest; yes, we are. It is both of our intentions to make eachother see the light, am I incorrect? You search the scriptures to disprove me, and show me that *I'm* blind. I search the scriptures to show you otherwise. At this point, if first correspondance hasn't changed anything, anything further regarding the matter is a waste of breath on both our behalf.

God bless

yvone
you seem to be very well versed on the subject of this church. It all seems to fit except for one question when you are quoting scriptures, specifically Luke 1:31. If you read 6 verses before you would soon realize that Luke was telling the story of how Jesus was conceived, so it does not matter that Luke came after Jesus. I have been trying hard to follow different postings on different boards about this church because I find it fascinating. But I have to tell you that when I feel I am being manipulated by folks just pulling out verses to fit their doctrine and not reading the whole story, it bothers me greatly. Also, what I find as dangerous, is in Rev 3:9 when the Lord calls the Synagogue of Satan the church that says they are Jews and they are not. I have seen postings where the church members say they are spiritual Jews and I have noticed the church follows all the feasts and passover like the Jews. To me that is scary. Just a thought. -confused

I'm not well versed on the church, I've only been going for a month and there are so many members that know so much more I wish I knew! But one step at a time.

As for Revelations 3:9 - I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. [end quote]

... The Church of God does not claim to be Jews. lol We claim to be Christians. We claim to be the very church (not physical building, of course) that Jesus established 2000 years ago. No where on the website does it, nor have I heard anyone at church, say anything like that. We do not celebrate the Passover according to the law of Moses like Jews do. We celebrate the Passover of the new convenant... Most of the feasts we keep are have the same names (Feast of Tabernacles, etc) but we do celebrate them the same way because Jesus came to change the laws- not abolish them. We teach the differences between the feasts celebrated when Moses lead the Jews through the desert, as opposed to the feasts celebrated starting with Passover Jesus celebrated with his disciples just before his crucifixion and on. The list is as Jewish custom [Our custom]:

- Passover [Passover of the New Covenant]
- Feast of Unleavened Bread [Feast of Unleavened Bread]
- Day of Firstfruits [Resurrection Day]
- Feast of Weeks [Day of Pentecost]
- Feast of Trumpets [Feast of Trumpets]
- Day of Atonement [Day of Atonement]
- Feast of Tabernacles [Feast of Tabernacles]

Deeper example concerning Feast of Unleavened Bread.

The Israelites ate bread made without yeast for 7 days from the Exodus to the Red Sea, in the timeline of the feasts (comparing Moses's journey and Jesus') this matches up with the time when Jesus suffered on the cross. So to participate in His suffering we fast, and thus learn Jesus' sacrificial love.

I have only studied the feasts vaguely and at a whole glance, but I still have to study each feast in detail and comparison from old testament to new testament which each is their own study. So yeah, I may ask to study Passover today so that I can tell you exactly how we do it, why we do it, and how it is different from Jewish Passover. But my point is, we are not Jews and we don't go to a synagogue!

I think I know what that verse is in reference to, metaphorically, and it has little to do with Jews. But that is in relation to the Daniel 2, 7 & 8, Revelations 13, 17, & 18 prophecy.

yvone, Thanks for you clarification. I just want to make sure I follow the right path. Luke 21:8 Take care that you are not tricked: for a number of people will come in My Name, saying I am he and the time is near: do not go after them. Mark 13:6, Matthew 24:5 say basically the same thing. I believe when Christ returns all will recognize him as King of kings and Lord of lords. That every knee shall bow and every mouth confess that he is Lord. I can't find where he will come in secret. Please be careful and investigate. I appreciate your diligence. Since you are new to the church I understand your excitement to gather fruit, just pay close attention to your bible studies and not let anyone take bits and pieces and put them together to prove a point. Look at the whole verse. Also, watch out for numbers games like 40-3=37 or how roman numerals from the pope's vicar add up to 666. I'm not trying to be negative, and I am certainly not persecuting you, I am just concerned for your soul. Please think of your family also. If you have distanced yourself from them, that may turn them away from God. I wouldn't want to carry that guilt and I'm sure you wouldn't either. Just a thought.

Yvone,

you stated: "I also hope that one day you will have the priviledge to celebrate the passover, the new covenant, so that you may receive the seal of God (eternal life) and be saved from the destruction and plagues of His judgement day."

You infer that only through Passover we obtain salvation & eternal life. This is in line with what your church teaches. How do you explain Jesus' statements to the theif during the crucifixion?

Luke 23:39-43: And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

If your church claims that salvation (eternal life) is obtained from the Passover, why didn't Jesus asked the theif if he had kept it? do you not think that if it a undeniable requirement, Jesus would have told the theif that?

Salvation is a gift from God. There is absolutely nothing that a human being can do to ever deserve it; hence God's over-reaching grace. Keeping the Law does not give you salvation; this is quite elementary.

I highly recommend you (and all those in this forum too) read what some prominent Jews have written in relation to Christianity & The Law. Especially Rabbi Emden exquisite narrative: follow the link below to get a bit of the taste.
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/falk1a.html

Alas, we are clearly admonished the sin of falling into a false gospel...let us not be, as 2 Timothy 3:7 states, "always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

May God lead those who truly and meekly seek Him to His truth.

Hi Yvonne,

As I have said before the questions that I ask are what "I" (meaning me personally) see as common sense questions.

I don't expect you nor anyone else to answer every single question that I type, it's the kind of questions that comes into my brain and is meant to hopefully stimulate not literally answer, since alot of the answers a member like yourself wouldn't know and will probably never know and wouldn't care to find out.

Also, I don't sit in front of the computer with a bible in my hand to remember exactly what every scripture says, so me saying where Jesus said "there will be many to come in his name" isn't exactly written from the bible but we both know it is in there.

You know exactly what I am talking about so there is really no need to go into it and "study" what it means.

As far as "stories" as I have mentioned before, the stories that are told about this man to make it seem as though he's someone special. Stories meaning information that may contain exaggerated truth. I was not refering to stories in the bible.

This is what I said:
----------------------
I'm sure ahnsahngong revealed himself to whatever disciples but that would go against the story of no one knowing who he was until after he died.

Stories like that I am refering to Yvonne. I'm sure you've heard them.
----------------------

I've been told numerous times that no one knew who he was until after his death. If you weren't aware of that then maybe you should look into it. Even though you may not care to since you desire for something to follow and believe in.


Now here is a question for you to think about NOT TO ANSWER. With him teaching of the second coming christ and the CHARACTERISTICS of the second coming and preaching of the passover which at the time when he was alive was probably the only church to have so called done it correctly in South Korea.

How can anyone miss those details? How can you tell me over the computer along with scripture relating ahnsahngong as the second coming, that when he preached the same exact thing, no one had a clue?

But if your church gets into detail and study of the name of the second coming then ahnsahnghong must have went into detail and study on the name as well.

If I see a animal walk like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck from the obvious clues.

Those same clues you point out to me was the same clues pointed out to the congregation in 1964 until 1984.

Not even one or two prophecies they were able to catch on to but when he died and who knows who he told about him "predicting his own death"...that alone woke everyone up?

Yet these are the same people that say "Only God can reveal the secrets of the bible" while at the same time, interpreted and linked the bible scripture and prophecy to this man.

Don't answer just think. I'm not looking for any of your answers since you claim to have only been a member of the church for a month.

Those who followed Jesus after his death didn't follow and believe in him then changed their mind because of lack of evidence. Unlike, ex-members of the COG. They are ex memebers for a reason, it's just sad that someone like you would see it as them getting lead astray.

You say Jesus revealed himself I guess there is either a misunderstanding or a contradiction because he refered to himself as the Son of man, while his disciples refered to him and confessed to everyone that he was the Son of God.

I do not have the bible in front of me to pin point this but you know it's there.

Jesus didn't walk around and say "I'm am the Son of God" he said I am the Son of Man.

There is a reason why it is said that Jesus will return to sit on the throne of David. As you can see, there are over a 100 false christs all over the world and most are in South Korea.

It is just that easy to claim to be christ that is why it is said he will return as the offspring of David.

He came as the root in his first coming. Joseph didn't have sex with Mary did he? No, she was already pregnant because God planted that seed in her. He was the root of David at that time.

He was not born from Joseph's loins so there is no way he came as the off spring at hat time. Your church may see it another way but if my wife was "impregnated by God" and I never slept with her, that would mean the baby is not officially mine but God's.

Jesus IS the root of David because he is God and God IS before David hence being the Root while his second coming would fulfill him being the Offspring of David.

Plain and simple.

As you mentioned in your post the scripture says:
-------
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
-------

Jesus is before David, before Abraham and so on.


If it was said that Jesus would preach for 40 years to fulfill the prophecy of David then it would have happened because it's the word of God but your church makes it seem like Jesus accidentally was crucified because he revealed himself.

Prophecy is a like a boulder rollong down a cliff, nothing can stop it especially if it's God's word.

He wouldn't tell his disciples to spread his message if things were incomplete. He wouldn't have left and ascend into heaven if prophecy wasn't fulilled.

Anyway regardless, I do what I do because I'm being "persecuted" by your church. Not through this online message board but for the simple fact that you and many others do not respect what is said in the constitution in regards to "Freedom of Religion". So I will do what I must to stand for what I beleive as you will too.

The difference between you and I is that I do not going around trying to convert people by using the bible.

And thank you for proving a theory of mine that I so deeply believe. "Religion seperates and is one of the main reasons for wars"

-------------------
I understand that you're not trying to change my mind, and neither am I, but let's be honest; yes, we are. It is both of our intentions to make eachother see the light, am I incorrect? You search the scriptures to disprove me, and show me that *I'm* blind. I search the scriptures to show you otherwise. At this point, if first correspondance hasn't changed anything, anything further regarding the matter is a waste of breath on both our behalf.
------------------

That statement alone just summed it up for me as far as our "friendly debate"

Anyone can use the scripture to prove themselves divine as you know there are a ton of "second comings christ" in South Korea yet alone the world that use the bible to prove themself to be God or to prove a point as we both been doing.

yet we aren't suppose to question any of them without being accused of being a heathen or non believer...go figure.

I would say, embrace the objective. Stop ignoring what is said about the church because obviously here is a reason to why people are saying what they are.

But I think being an objectivist will go against your belief so I guess that wouldn't be good.

Thanks for the chat,

- James

It is said that he will come back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah for a reason.

Anyone.. even my neighbor can claim to be him but if that person that claims to be him is not of David, then he is false.

- James

I have a lot to say regarding your response, James. For one, Jesus was not before Abraham, for God made the everlasting covenant with Abraham. Jesus was after that. You don't really seem to know the basic fundamentals, yet you are so cocky and self-admiring in your "wisdom."

You have freedom of religion, it's called the United States and unless we are overthrowing the government and making the law that you must be part of our church, to say that we do not honor that is ludicrous. You don't want me to answer you, but I will, because you are making statements that- alone- are propoganda, and ignorant of my statements which are true.

For example you ignore my first reference when Jesus tells the woman that he is the messiah. And then you refer to the other quote I used to support that he claimed to be God and you couldn't even correctly contradict that! I think it's important you know that much, COG or not.

I don't have a bible in front of me, darling, it's called biblegateway.com- a modern day Christian's best friend =) and copy and paste. It's also called bible study, and taking diligent notes. What takes me hours is finding the specific study in my notebook with pages and pages filled of studies that I haven't taken the time to title so that I may know what they are at first glance, and the fact that I am answering every single one of your questions, and paying attention to everything you say and responding; and in return, you ignore my valid points and then go on to make personal attacks. That is how I know you really have nothing to argue other than your own ignorance. If you want to go ahead and say something, say something. But don't tell me something without backing it up with scripture, because who are you? How do I know it says that? Especially when you're wrong! (i.e. Jesus not claiming to be God... Like I said, I thought this was widely known. Just google JESUS and I'm sure you can find a plethora of things testifying to that fact lol)

If anything, I have kept this conversation friendly, and have tried to keep this at the level of a scholarly debate, but you take it as religious argument and have no tact. So my initial politeness is done, for you have really taken it a little too far. Even confused and Another Confused, while bringing up valid points which I haven't had the time to answer (because I've been sucked in by you), are polite about it. With that said, I would love to continue correspondance with THEM, seeing as they are capable of having a mature debate on religion and the Bible.

Personally, I don't know what your problem is and just how many toes of yours have been stepped on by COG members that have not been as gracious as I have in our previous correspondance. But do not take that out on me, after I have taken my time to beat your over the head with truth that you ignore and flip around because you, yourself, don't even know the story. (I will point out again, Jesus claiming to be God) I haven't called you a non-believer or a heathen (I don't even use that word, nor do I particularly care for the word cult. You'll find that I am one of the most objective people you will meet, Sir James, and anyone who reads our previous correspondance will see that in comparison to yourself- biased and unwilling. "I will not reply to all of this because you posted so much" Well then, I suppose you shouldn't say so much yourself if you don't expect to have it responded to. This is a forum. Not a podium.)

So please, understand that I will not be making any more comments to -You, James- after this here, but I would love to continue this conversation with anyone else (Confused? Another confused?). I am incredibly tired because it's been a long day, but I will get around to answering both of you humble speakers (confused and another confused) because I appreciate your patience on the topic and truly consider you to be wise because of it!

May God grant you many blessings in the future
- Yvone

P.S. If you didn't get it, that was the difference between you and I.

I'm not trying to convert people. I came onto this forum to defend MY religion, which you so boldly call a cult. You are a hypocrite and a generalizer and don't know half of what you're talking about. Atleast I have admitted and repeated multiple times when I don't know something, or if I'm not sure on something.

Matthew 16:15-17 - He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. [end quote]

... Need I say anymore?

And things were clearly incomplete, such as the prophecy of Melchizedek. Why James, I believe these couple of verses were dedicated to you... (sound familiar? How does it feel to be personally attacked, in something that should be mature conversation? I'm done being polite when not only are you rude, but also incorrect about a lot of things)

Hebrews 5:7-13 - During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn.

In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! [end quote]

God bless

... Hmm. From the post above "And, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him"

Isaiah 25:6-8 - On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine— the best of meats and the finest of wines.

On this mountain he will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers all nations;

he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove the disgrace of his people from all the earth. The LORD has spoken.[end quote]

The passover was abolished in 325 AD. Christian's haven't celebrated it since, but their own version at their own appointed time referred to as "communion". A banquet of aged wine- wine left on hold for us because we have not celebrated it for so long, for as you may (Or probably don't, with your track record) know, everytime they had wine it was new wine. Nothing that had been sitting around aging, darling.

Matthew 26:26 - While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."

Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.

This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom.[end quote]

Dude I could go on and on. But I'll leave you with one last verse.

John 6:53 - Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.

Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." [end quote]

Jesus broke drank wine and bread a lot of times, buddy, a lot. But only on the 1st day of the 14th month of the sacred calendar (month of Nisan) did he say this is my flesh, and this is my blood. Look it up yourself, I'm done with you.

Ok Yvonne,

In no way I have disrespected you and I will not apologize for something that I didn't do.

Religious beliefs usually does that, there is no agreement only tolerance. There is no peace. People can say that they "respect" someone else's belief of religion but in reality it's BS.

In other words, if you are not with them then you are against them.

But hey..

I don't claim to be wise in anything but I do know what I know can be backed up with history and facts.
I feel that copying and pasted bible scripture is a bit much and if I know of something then I will say it as simple as I can and point the person to look it up for themselves as I have done.

My questions..well I already explained myself about that.

Second, you seem to have forgotten about ACT 8:27 and what I said about that. You seem to have not answered nor responded when I brought up the Ethiopian Christianity and it's origins and it's history.

You seem to have forgotten that I brought up the fact the Ethiopians have the oldest form of Christianity which you've said you would look into and get back to me..however I didn't see anything in regards to ACT 8:27 nor the Ethiopian Christianity.

I let it go because I know you wouldn't see it as important. Instead of asking your deacons and preachers, maybe you should research on your own.

Third..Jesus/God is the ALPHA AND OMEGA..period. The BEGINNING and THE END. No need to explain myself about that or should I?

You can of course point of scripture to refute that then I will do the same and it will go back and forth..unsolved so what is the use? You seem to know the bible so well but when I brings up certain things, I'm wrong or taking it out of content.

Do I have a problem, no. But when people refuse to acknowledge information that doesn't benefit or back up their belief, then I must point it out. Just like you are doing the same with those Christians and those Jews and whoever else your church wants to talk about in regards to passover.

And one more thing, honestly it really doesn't matter to me if you respond to my post, I said what I had to say and will continue to do so regardless. I do not need your "special attention" or guidance.


Thanks anyway,

- James

Also, show me in ANY of my posts here that I called your church a cult. Please show me so everyone can see how much of a hyppocrite you claim that I am.

You say you do not convert people but what do missionaries do??

It's their job to use "spreading God's word" as a ploy to convert.

C'mon let's be real about what you guys do. You go around and use the bible to convert people into your relgiion, am I right?

How do you think christianity is so strong in South Korea and any other country that didn't use the bible before missionaries "invaded" their country.

What happens when a big and powerful country invades a smaller? The people are converted to the religion of the stronger.

Look at what the US is trying to do with Iraq, that is a modern day prime example.

How else would an ex-catholic, or ex-christian or anyone with a different belief system totally change their faith. If your church is training you to bring in people of different beliefs then what else are you doing besides sugar coating it with the bible.

It is, what it is.

Who's the hypocrite?

Anyway I'm just a brickwall, ignore me.

- James

Hi Yvonne ,

I give you a lot credit for your dedication for your faith , your knowledge of the Bible is also very impressive.

I also want to commend you for taking the time to answer all those questions.

I am glad you didn't stop answering the question , I want to know more about it .My cousin join this church about 9 month ago. May be I shouldn't say she already joined the church , she is just studying bible together with them. She was in Korea for the college exchange program, she was invited to join their Bible study group.

After she came back she ask me to go with her to the Bible study . But I am not sure what kind of church she is going to.

I used to go to Church regularly ,but after college I stop.
But I still believe in the Bible.

My family is a worry about my cousin joining this church .
I did some looking around , but religion is a very personal.
It is not my place to give her advise about what she should believe.
I don't want to invade her personal space. But I am interested to know more about this church.
I want to make sure it is not a dangerous cult .
( I don't mean to offend anyone. )

to be continue ..
Andrew

continue

I was goggling the word Ahnsahnghong and it bring me to this site , I also read some posts from the skepticism site.

I don't intend to criticize anybody. I come here to learn ,and I am opening my ear to listen .

This is some of the most unusual Biblical idea I ever heard.

----------------
I must say I am very impressed with your enthusiasms to your faith, you are so passionate about your Church and that is very interesting.

You said if anyone wishes to ask you any questions about the Church of God ,you will most definitely reply to any questions or debate.

I have a few questions , I just want to hear what you think. Or may be you can clarify a few points for me.

-------------------

In America people are free to choose their religion, we should respect each others faith . I will respect your freedom and your church .

I may not agree with some of your church's teaching .But I have no bad feeling toward the people of your church.

It is all about analyzing the teaching ,please do not take it personally .

I hope you would understand .

------------------

According to your post ,you said your Church follow the new covenant, which is not just Jewish customs .

My first questions is :
I would like to know ,how do you define the meaning of keeping the "New Covenant" ?

What do you have to do, in order to keep the "New Covenant"?

And where is the Biblical reference to support that teaching ?
--------------

I put the key word "New Covenant" and " New Testament" to a Bible study web-site . And it come back with about 10 different scriptures.


In the scriptures that describe "the Lord's Supper" , Jesus talked about the "New Covenant".

"New Covenant" is God's way of bringing Salvation to men.

It was also described in Acts 3 :25 ,

"For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us. God was being entirely fair and just when he did not punish those who sinned in former times."

Through the death of Christ , God's son bear our sin .

And those who believe in Jesus Christ, will not perish but have eternal life.
-------------

Other places in the Bible that mentioned the word "New Covenant" are the following ,

Heb 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 12:24
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

1Cor 11:25
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

2Cor 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

------------
All the scriptures that mentioned "New Covenant" didn't say people need to keep any special days or festivals.

I wonder where do you get the idea , under the "New Covenant" we need to keep all these Days and Festivals.

The Feast of Unleavened bread
The Day of First fruits
The Feast of the Weeks
The Feast of the Trumpets
The Day of Atonement
The Feast of Tabernacles




Thank you very much


Andrew S.

Hi Yvonne

Andrew is my real name but I usually use the name Creasy to post questions here.

My girlfriend is the member of the Church of God and I met girlfriend through my cousin .She is also going to the Church of God .
( But she hasn't baptized yet. )

I was reading a article on psychology ,it says there are two different aspects of personality exist within the human psyche.

The emotional side, and the reasoning side.

Our emotional side would lead us to respond to a problem based on how we feel about the subject .

But our reasoning side would lead us to respond to a problem based on the facts we know about the subject .

A mature person should have good balance between the emotion and the reason .

------------

When it comes to religion ,we don't always have all the facts.

But we can't simply believe anything just because it feels right.

Therefore it is hard to find a Good Balance in religion.

------------

Some psychologist use a different way to describe the balance of emotion , and reason .

They called it the balance between the Dreamer and the Realist.

A realist is personality based on facts.

A dreamer is personality based on feelings.

----------
Being a realist , I make decision based on facts . I can more carefully, and less likely to make mistake .

A dreamer is based on feelings, he will believe whatever it feels right.

That is rather dangerous and unreliable .
---------------

My question is , when it comes to understanding religion .

Do you think it is better to be a Realist than being a Dreamer ?


Andrew S.

To james:

Is my name Missionary Yvone? ... No. -I- do not convert people. So please stop generalizing. ALSO, you say it as if that's a BAD thing. If you knew who second coming Christ is, of the way to salvation, wouldn't you tell people? Are you that selfish? And wouldn't you expect someone to show you through the bible if they made such bold claims? You ask me how do I think Christianity is so strong in South Korea? Dude, Christianity has been around I would say a good deal of time. But a lot of countries were forced into Christianity with violence. Tribes being killed and beaten or otherwise inflicted because they were not following the religion of the missionaries. In no way do we do anything like that. All we do is show them the Bible. What's so wrong about that? You're going to believe some people who just come to your door and tell you all these things that no one wants to believe, and they can't even prove it in the Bible? Get real, the Bible is here for us to learn, not to just throw in a drawer and collect dust. Even so, they have scripture online which is incredibly convenient for times like this. I'm sorry if you feel that copy and pasting Bible scripture is a bit much- it seems to suit your needs in earlier posts, though, now doesn't it?

Not to mention, you say "what happens when a big and powerful country invades a smaller." I wonder why, considering COG originated in South Korea? Are you trying to tell me that South Korea alone is greater than the United States? Greater than England? Our churches are all over the world, people from all nations are members. And all we had to do was read the Bible.

Second of all, I had actually looked up the Ethopian Christianity on my own, but I haven't had time to read the pages that I had printed out at work because I did care to check it out on my own and because my time is limited. Not to mention Acts 8:27. So please don't tell me what I have or haven't done; I haven't addressed that yet because I haven't finished reading it.

... Yes, God is the alpha and the omega. He was here before anything existed and he will be here after it. So what exactly is your point? Did you need me to find the verse for you or something?

You said: "You can of course point of scripture to refute that then I will do the same and it will go back and forth..unsolved so what is the use? You seem to know the bible so well but when I brings up certain things, I'm wrong or taking it out of content."

If that's the case, then the Bible contradicts itself. If that's true, then why are you even a Christian? I will tell you that it does not contradict itself, but should not be taken literally, for many stories are parables and many characters are parallels to God (in all his forms). Jesus spoke to us only in parables. Likewise, many things from God have not been written literally, but to tell a story about him, us, and the kingdom of heaven.

I came to this board by way of skepticism.net, which I am sure I can find atleast one post from you supporting the idea that we are a cult. The only reason I'm here and not there is because I didn't have to sign up for anything to post here.

... How would an ex-catholic totally change their faith? You must be of the older generation, James. But it's not uncommon for someone to change their faith. Me, personally, I used to be like you, a "Christian." But I didn't know anything. I would go to church Sunday and listen to the preacher tell me this and that and none of it made sense nor did it really tell anything other than "why you're blessed" or "turn the other cheek" and little, insignificant things like that. I hated it. I couldn't wait to leave church- 2 and a half hours of crap. I checked into some other religions, not joining any, but I did research on the Islamic faith, Taoism, Buddhism, and Judaism. That didn't satisfy me, nothing could explain itself or why, just do this do that. I checked into Wicca, that was uneventful to say the least, and there were too many Gods, too many pagan festivals, I just couldn't take it. Because it still didn't explain why or how. So for a while I was just like forget it, I don't need religion, who cares. And long story short a serious of a lot of things lead me to believe there was a some kind of god, so I was being exceptionally thankful and praising some unknown god, trying to asking them who they were. Not long after I ran into this guy and we started talking and he asked me what religion I was (it was in the context of the conversation, not just randomly) and I said agnostic so he invited me to the COG and I tell you I have been there ever since.

My church isn't training me. It's called Bible study- something I would think you would want to take, considering that you're a Christian and all. You seem to have a problem with us spreading the good news. Because it is good news.

Anyhow, I've got to go get ready, my stepmom is coming from out of town so that she can come to church with me.

I will reply to Andrew (and the 2 confused) sometime later tonight.

God bless you!

creasy/Andrew do you have an e-mail address?

You are too much Yvonne,

If you say that I called your church as a cult on Skepticsm then find it. I've always refered to your chuuch as "The church" or "COG" after learning more about it. Some people may have asked if it's a cult because of it's characteristics and secrecy.

I've always addressed your god in his correct name, you haven't seen me addressed him in any other name other than how YOU see him as.


Do I ned you to find the verse of alpha and omega, no I don't but thanks for your help. I have a bible thanks, I don't read it regularly but I have in the past so whatever I type is mostly from memory or if I happen to grab it to make a point as I did in regards to "ACTS 8".

About the bible having contradictions, well it was written by men after all so it is very possible. I'm sure there's plenty of websites that you can google up to find them.

I've stumbled upon a few sites myself in the past.

You totally misunderstoodd what I was trying to say which is ok. The reason why christianity is so popular around the world is from christian missionaries (of course not the COG) in early times going to countries they felt obligated to push their bible on.


Some countries were forced into which is what I am trying to say. As far as COG missionaries and not just the COG but any other missionaries or Jehovah Witnesses or a religion that has the bible, they will go out and convert those they feel need to be converted.

For example: Let's say that the US were "victorious" in the war in Iraq, eventually the bible will find it's way in a nation where Islam is the norm. The "good news" will be spread there even though they have their own culture and religion.

That why alot of those Iraqi's didn't want the US out of there because that is one of the reasons.

Are you a missionary maybe not but what would be the purpose for you to learn so much without being able to spread "the good news"?

Is South Korea bigger than the US, frankly I don't care if it is or isn't seing that they are allies with one another, but christianity was brought there by who...missionaries.

Any religion that was brought there was either by force or persuasion.

Second, I am not with any religion and I am not officially a "christian" according to the practices of your church so you calling me a christian is taken very lightly, but thanks for assuming instead of asking me what I am.


As far as this comment goes:
-----------
How would an ex-catholic totally change their faith? You must be of the older generation, James. But it's not uncommon for someone to change their faith. Me, personally, I used to be like you, a "Christian."
-----------

You seem to type with alot sarcasm in your post and I've noticed that from the beginning when you first responded to a post of mine. Not anger but obvious sarcasm hinting that I don't know what I'm talking about because I haven't typeded a bunch of scripture in my post.

We can post scripture all day, what exactly will it solve? My questions were based on ahnsahnghong himself and none of those were answered by you nor anyone else in the church whuch is ok because you probably don't know. BUT! I asked those questions to try and spark something in some that may have over-looked those deatils.

You for example can read the question and say.."Hmm, yea I wonder who did name him ahnsahnghong?"

Perhaps you know and perhaps you don't but if you don't you can then take that to your deacon or preacher. Will they give you an answer..they might but it's up to you if you want to accept it just so they can pacify your curiousity.

Would it be the truth, you will never know because it is from them and not from someone who perhaps went to the church before it was divided and knew ahnsahnghong. The answer would be from someone who believes he is what is said of him.

Getting unbiased answers were my intention, not to bash you personally or question your knowledge of the bible as you have done with me.

I don't have to prove anything to anyone, it's your church that have to prove alot besides related scripture about him to alot of curious people.

You can laugh and subliminally call me OR think that I'm a fool but those who think they know, really don't know nothing at all.

Am I of the older generation, maybe but with age comes a little wisdom am I right?

Your church isn't the only church to use the bible to spread "the good news" but since this message board is about it, I chose to stick to the subject.

Do I have a problem with it, no I don't but when someone is of another faith yet your pushing your "good news" on them..where is the respect?

There is none.

Again, I am not disrespecting you or getting personal so maybe you should take that aggression level down a bit.

This is a friendly debate which I mentioned on more than one occasion. So you might want to stick to that without trying to insult my intelligence.

About the Ethiopian Christianity, well I'm glad that you are researching it on your own, hopefully you'll do more.


- James

Hi James
This really sounds like a fairy tale or a story to me. You know the three billy Goat Gruffs
Ashley & Kendal vanished into thin air without giving answer to many of the Questions. After somedays it is like wait until my big brother/sister comes along he/she has much bible knowledge than us.
The issue is the same discussed about this dead korean man being a christ.
Its amazing how these members come to this blog to defend their church. And why should they waste their time
If they feel they have the truth, baptized and have their names written in the book of life as stated by pastor joo cheol in one of his books. Its like getting your ticket confirmed to heaven or is the lake of fire now that's the criteria.

Look at these guys have predicted much before this korean man

1) William Miller (Seventh Day Adventist Founder) who predicted Jesus' return for 1843. When his prediction failed then he said it was to be in 1844. Well, seemingly he again missed it.
2) Joseph Smith, (Founder of Mormonism), said Jesus was coming in l891.
3) Charles Taze Russell (Founder of "Jehovah Witnesses") predicted 1914, and then 1917. When Jesus did not appear, he then declared that Jesus came in spirit and only an elect few saw Him.
4)Ahnsahghong?????


To me.....
“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.”
Heb 13:18 “For behold, I am God; and I am a God of miracles; and I will show unto the world that I am the same yesterday, today, and for ever

The real solution is not to have two Messiahs, but to have TWO COMINGS of the one Messiah: 1) His first coming where he would suffer and die; 2) His second coming where he would conquer and rule and reign but this man is dead
And even if.....

If Christ’s Second Coming has occurred, why are we still living on earth?
What has changed since Christ returned?
When did “every eye” see Him?
Why do we yet die? I thought we would live forever?
Why is sin still in the world?
Are we living in the new heavens and new earth?
something to ponder on?
God bless your souls

Hi Joshua,

------------------
After somedays it is like wait until my big brother/sister comes along he/she has much bible knowledge than us.
------------------

As far as bible knowledge. I would say it's more interpretations.

If you have 5 different races and cultures ranging from:

Caucasion, African, Hispanic, Asian, and Middle Eastern.

I can bet that within each one, there would be more than a handful of "second comings" in their culture or race. Each one would have their own savior that they can relate to and identify with and there actually have been situations like that..even now.

To me, it's more who interprets the bible to look for God to come back as one of them and alot of the so called religious people claim to be of God but can not simple look passed race to accept Jesus coming back as someting other than themselves.

Religious racism? maybe...

I would say that would apply to every race or culture I listed. The bible itself is proof of that in regards to:

1. The Jews being the chosen.

2. The description of the second of God's chosen people which are not the Jews who observe the old testement but is refering to the Jews OR non Jews who accept Christ.

3. Jesus's lineage having to be of David's.

I was told once when I was a child that I will not be saved because I'm not Jewish and one of God's "favorites" or chosen. It was good to know that I was worthless and my life was meaningless. That's something a child should really want to hear and embrace.

All of these people that said they were the "second comings" can and have proved to people using the bible that they are the second coming or else they wouldn't have any followers. Some were able to do it while they were alive and some weren't and are not here to tell their side of the story or to clear things up.


Either way, I will continue to stand my ground because if you put two people from different churches in a room and ask them to interpret scripture, they would do it differently while at the same time calling each other wrong.

There is no seeing eye to eye, there is no agreement and there will definately be no peace between them. Probably pity for one another but until the day when everyone can see and witness everything with no type of disagreements, things will remain to be what it is.

- James

Creasy,

Excellent composition on religion and reason. You may recall some time recently the outrage the comments the Pope made concerning Islam. In fact, his discourse was not about Islam, but the interaction between religion and reason. While I do not follow nor am associated with the Catholic religion, I recommend you read his speech; it was superb.

Balance in all aspects of life is absolutely critical for full life: Religion and reason are not the exception. Well done Creasy.

Hi Creasy,

Yes I remember. In fact, the Muslims took it way out of content. It appears that they only heard him recite a certain section and that's where they totally lost it.

Is there a link on his speach? I would like to read it.

Thanks Creasy!

- James

Sorry, that last post was meant for "Another One Confused" in regards to the Pope's speach.

To Creasy:

I agree with Another One Confused..very nice observation.

- James

Hi Everyone ,

Earlier I said my cousin has not been baptize yet.

But I just find out today, my cousin had already been baptized in Korea . After she went to their meeting for two weeks ,and they baptize her . That is after she know this church in less than 8 hours.

She doesn't want her family to worry ,so she told people she has not been baptize.

----------------------------

To : Helper ,

Thank you for caring ,but I don't think it is a good idea for me to give out my email address.

Frankly , I am a little scare of these people of the Church the God.

They can be really mean sometimes.

If they found out I am asking question behind their back, they will eat me alive.

I don't want them to think I am messing with them.

Believe me , you don't want these people to be your enemy.

If you go against them , or if they think you are not comletely loyal to them, they will give you a really hard time .

I better keep my identity secret.

-----------------------

To : " Another one confused "

Thank you for your command.


Creasy

To James (and those who are interested): The Pope's speach, which i made reference previously, can be read at the following link: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html To Creasy: you are quite welcome.

Thanks

To all:
As happened before we have lost contact. It seems when we use a realistic approach, as Creasy mentions,they opt out of the discussion. I thought that yvone was really the one who would clear things up for me. Oh well. I was really curious as to what yvone's step-mom thought of their service.

Hey everyone!

I'm not opting out of the discussion, I've just been incredibly busy. In these last days I am fleeing to Zion- that is, the church- as much as I can! The funniest thing is, you would think all of this discussion would make my faith waver. But actually it has made things so much easier for me to believe, I can't even explain it. Talking on this forum confirms my faith, and allows me to believe in Christ Ahnsahnghong not just by the scriptures and my own reason, but by faith from the heart as well (Amen.)

I wish my printer worked, then I could take a look at everything while I'm at church, but right now I can't stand to be home for more than an hour or so at a time (unless I'm sleeping).

Just for the record my mom went to both the afternoon service and the evening service, and she studied. We were there from about 2:00pm to 9:45 and before it was time for her to leave she had already asked if it was OK for her to come next weekend (Amen.) Thank God. Blessings have been poured upon her in multitudes. But now I must go. I'm sorry and I don't mean to disappoint you all with my lack of correspondance, but my top priority is my salvation! I can only say so much- if one doesn't believe in even the smallest of truths, there is no way they can believe in anything else.

I'm off to church!

-May God continuously bless you all
Yvone

I wish my printer worked, then I could take a look at everything while I'm at church, but right now I can't stand to be home for more than an hour or so at a time (unless I'm sleeping).

translation:
Then I could take it to the church leaders for their approval.

Folks, It is clear as day, lucid as a star shining in a dark sky what our Lord Jesus wanted us to know: Salvation comes only through Him; He is our lawyer before the Father, pleading on our behalf. There is no other mortal person besides Him, none, that the Bible makes Him comparable to. Throughout the path of time there have been and will continue to be people claiming to be Him. But Jesus warned us about this; we will have no excuse on our judgment day. Jesus also told us to inform those led astray of their error. But folks, not to all is our faith. The fact of the matter is that only God can take away the vail of ignorance that prevents them from seeing the truth. Not you, not anyone else, and certainly not me. The book of Jude speaks transparently on this. Jude 1: 3-5 "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not."

... I don't need my church leader's approval. I simply spend most of my time at church. Is that so hard to believe? If you know that COG strongly feels we are living in the last days, then you should know that right now we are trying to stay in Zion as much as possible and trying to prepare ourselves for judgement day. You people are ridiculous, really. Things like that make me feel like it's not even worth my time to begin with. Why give up my salvation and my time to learn more for a debate which will never end? Especially when so many questions have been asked, giving me little to no time to answer them? And you wonder why I haven't responded yet? There's so much on my plate, I want to eat it all, but where do I start?!

translation: Forget it. You, confused, were actually someone whom I thought I should answer their questions- more so than James, which I have had a LOT of correspondance with. But I see everyone here on this board is just... I can't even explain it. I cannot stay in this discussion without emotions coming into play from all sides, and right now humility is best. So I'm going to have to say good bye. But I thank you all for everything you've done for me. May our Elohim God bless you all, Mother Jerusalem and Christ Ahnsahnghong (Amen.)

There the big billy goat gruff has given up
I pity her poor mama, must have been going through some difficult times recently and sseking some hope.
Right now humility is best or unable to reply to questions.
Keep waiting in Zion the chosen 144,000 fools and worship a dead korean ghong and a mother Jerusalem.
Indeed too many questions to answer.
If Christ’s Second Coming has occurred, why are we still living on earth?
What has changed since Christ returned?
When did “every eye” see Him?
Why do we yet die? I thought we would live forever?
Why is sin still in the world?
Are we living in the new heavens and new earth?

May Jesus Christ forgive your lost souls

Ok, I promise this is the last thing I'm going to say, really.

When Jesus Christ came to this earth, it was prophecized that a great light would shine on those walking in darkness.

...We later find out in Matthew that the gospel was the great light. Of course, the Jews didn't have the book of Matthew. So they missed their messiah because they were looking for a literal light.

I'm sorry that history has to repeat.

God Bless and farewell! (really this time I promise to bite my tongue even if I do glance back occassionally)

And I would really appreciate it if you did not refer to him as dead "ghong", his name is Ansahnghong; whether you believe him to be Christ, or not =/

Yvone,

I will speak for myself when I say that I respect the fact that you continue to be here conversing about the Lord. It tells me that you are indeed trying to seek the truth. I will not engage in infantile discourse, so let me begin by saying that there are some ostensible inaccuracies in some of previous your statements that – pardon me - warrant correction.

First, let us clarify that most of the members that belong to the Church of Christ – that is those who testify Jesus as our Messiah – equally believe that we are living the “last days.” So there is no point of debating that topic.

Second, you stated that “the Jews didn't have the book of Matthew. So they missed their messiah because they were looking for a literal light.”

As a matter of fact, it is self-evident that most the first Christian were Jews; so to say that “they” missed their Messiah is partly inaccurate. I believe you are referring to the Pharisees. Having said that, you may recall that in Jesus’ time, the Romans occupied Israel, which led to the Pharisees (and their blind followers) to expect their Messiah (a false one i might add) who would liberate them from Rome and to establish Israel to its former glory.

I believe we would all agree that there is ample and unambiguous evidence in the Old Testament that prophesies Jesus coming and His sacrificial offering. Similarly there is ample evidence that dictates there is no other Christ but Jesus. Jesus never said He would come as another man. On the contrary, He explicitly told us to steer clear from any person that claims to be Him. This last fact is irrefutable.

Yvone, I urge you to compare the prophesies in the Bible concerning Jesus’ coming versus the prophesies that your Church claims speak of ahnsahnghong. The prophesies about the latter are tenuous at
best.

God bless you.

Please dont join this cult. They wrecked my child's life and drove him to suicide.

Welcome Eddy
Sorry about that. I am equally concerned about my brother too. Sometimes I wonder this COG members have gone deep into this cult beliefs that the day know it was all a B.S and have been worshipping a false Christ what will be their outcome? Will they be able to face the people around them. Ultimately this is how they give up. You know how Judas ended his life???
I think the website link you gave cannot be accessed. Please retype. Thanks
Love & God Bless

Hi Yvone ,

I was reading all your posts and I am glad you come to this site .
I notice a change attitude is happening within you .

In the beginner you are so enthusiastic ,you are so passionate , full of energy. You said if anyone wishes to ask you any questions about the Bible or about the Church of God , you would love them to email you .

You said, you will most definitely reply to anyone's questions or debate.

You were so up bit ,you were so pump up about your faith that you welcome anyone to send in questions about the Church of God. It is very refreshing to see a person having such a lively expression of faith .

But within a short days, your attitude has change drastically. I am very sorry to see you lost your energy and uplifting spirit .

I am wondering , what caused you to change your mind ?

Is it because of James's annoying , inconsidered remarks ?

Please pay no attention to him.

If the message you are preaching is truly from the all mighty God ,please let no one stop you from sharing it to the world !

to be continue ...

--------------------------
You have mentioned a few reason that is keeping you from further discussion .

#1.
Sister Yvone ,You said ,

"It is said in the Bible that you should not waste time on one who refuses to see, lest you run out of time and fail to spread the word to those waiting to hear it."

I guess you are referring to Matthew 10 : 14 .

Please look at the scripture ,In Matthew 10 : 14 Jesus said ,

"And if anyone will not welcome you or listen to your message, shake the dust off your feet as you leave that house or that town. "

**********

The Bible says ,If people do not receive you, or if they do not listen to your message. You can walk away.

However ,when people are ASKING you questions about the gospel, doesn't it shows they are seeking to understand the truth ?

( May be some people is not interested to know ,but at least I am interested and I am listening . )

The fact that some people are genuinely asking questions , it shows people are willing to listen . They want to listen to your experience about this religion .

If people do not care , they wouldn't even border to ask any question.

Jesus say you can walk away from people, when they want to listen.

But People are asking you questions because they want to know.

They will listen ,and they want to listen .

Jesus didn't say you can walk away from people when they are trying to listen to God's salvation !!

And you can't use Matthew 10 : 14 as an excuse to walk away ...

I am interested to listen to what you have to say .

to be continue ...

----------------------------------------

#2.
Sister Yvone ,You said :
I don't have that kind of time to preach to a brick wall.

Please look at apostle Paul in Acts 17:16 .

Paul goes to Athens and the people of Athens were accustom to idols worshipping .They have thousands and thousands of idols in Athens.

They people in Athens were worse than a brick wall .It was extremely difficult to preach the gospel to the them.

But Paul didn't walk away from talking to people. In verse 17 it says Paul went to the market place everyday, to meet with the people and discuss the gospel with them.

They were getting angry with Paul ,they want to stop Paul from talking .
They brought Paul to see the Judge Areopagus .

The people want the Judge to punish Paul ,and stop Paul from speaking.

But even in the courtroom, Paul didn't stop preaching about God.
Paul use the opportunity to gave a speech in the court house, right in front of the Judge.

Paul didn't back down just because it is difficult .

Paul didn't let anything stop him from talking to people about God.

You can't use " because it is hard " as an excuse to stop explaining the teaching !

to be continue ...

--------------------

#3. Sister Yvone ,you said,

You people are ridiculous, really.

It make me feel like it's not even worth my time to begin with.


Don't you think you gave up preaching too "easily" ?

You just came to this site for a few short days to share God's words, and you already think it's not worth your time ?

Talk about carrying the cross to follow Christ.

Just give up when its hard. Is that the teaching of the Church of God ?

Because I see a pattern here !

Look at Brother David , Brother Kendall and Sister Ashley . All the member of the Church of God in this site behave the same way .
As soon as people ask them a serious question, a hard question. They disappear .
( And I am not mocking you , it is just talking straight. )
In the beginner they were so excited , they invite people to send in questions. They promised to answer all the questions .
They are all full of zeal , but less than a week they changed 180 degree.

They lost interest to explore the Bible .
They lost the passion for sharing their faith.

*******
In 1 Corinthians 9:16 Paul said ,
"For if I preach the gospel, I have no reason for boasting, because I am compelled to do this. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel !"

Paul said he was Compelled to share God's word. He said , Woe will be upon him ,if he didn't preach the gospel.

But Brother David , Brother Kendall and Sister Ashley are the opposite of Paul . Paul is Compelled to share God's word .
Brother David , Brother Kendall and Sister Ashley are Compelled to run away ,and Not share God's word .

And didn't they follow the Bible ,and explain the teaching to people like Paul did ?
How can you give up so easily?

******
In Romans 1:14 - 16 , Paul said ,
"I am in debt (under obligation to preach the gospel ) to the Greeks and to the barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Paul said ,Christians are in debt to those who do not know Christ .

How come you do not share the same feeling that you are in debt to all those who want to learn ?

Why didn't you have a sense of reasonability to share God's words ?

What didn't you follow the Bible ,and feel in debt to people of the gospel like Paul did ?

What do you say to all those people who demand answer from you ?

Why are you give up so easily?

*****

In Roman 10: 14, Paul said ,
"How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?"

If you don't share God's message how can people believe ?

Why didn't you follow the Bible ,and continue to explain the teaching ?

to be continue ...

-------------------------------------

#4.
Sister Yvone , you said ,
I can only say so much- if one doesn't believe in even the smallest of truths, there is no way they can believe in anything else.

You have to know , people will believe. But it will happen in God's own special timing .

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven." Ecclesiastes 3 : 1

**********

Your job is to preach . And not worry about when people will believe .
Because it is not up to the "preacher" to make people believe .

In 1 Corinthians 3:6 Paul said ,
" My job was to plant the seed in your hearts, and Apollos watered it.
But it was God, who made it grow. "

Your job is to plant the seed , explain the teaching to people. After you finish you planting the seed ,God will make it grow in people's heart .

If you didn't plant the seed ,without the seed nothing will grow .

If you walking away from people ,if you didn't explain the teaching to people. Nothing good will come out of it .

to be continue ...

But within a short days, your attitude has change drastically. I am very sorry to see you lost your energy and uplifting spirit .

I am wondering , what caused you to change your mind ?

Is it because of James's annoying , inconsidered remarks ?

Please pay no attention to him.
--------------------

Inconsidered? Hmmmm.


- James

I will be honest, yes, it was because of James, and partly some others. I personally want to give everyone respect, but in return I would like to be respected. Please understand that I am so aware of the fact that if God were to come back right this second, I would not be prepared! But please, consider this of yourselves as well (not just you, Creasy)! I am striving my hardest to be a good person and to give up the physical things in life, but I am a sinner just like the rest of you and I struggle to manage it all. I work from 9 to 5. Then I go to the gym from 5 to 6. Then I go to church from that point on until 10:30, and when I get home at 11 I am falling asleep with the keys in the door. Please understand that any correspondance make is usually done at work, as I have an office job, or else it's done when I get home at night with barely any lighting, or in the early morning before I start to get ready for work. Believe me when I say I would much rather spend my time talking to you all about the gospel, and it is my desire to do so that has brought me back again- even though I should be working. I was so very enthusiastic at first because it is my first time "preaching" and I have always been scared to preach because I know that I don't have all of the answers- I've been going for a month, and as I have said I go to church every day for bible study and I still don't have them all. Even online, it is difficult for me to try and explain something with 100% confidence because I may not have all the scripture to back it up, and a lot of scripture presented to me is usually new; the Bible is such a big book, and when carefully analyzing just a chapter at a time it's highly possible that I don't know every scripture written...

That is why most brothers and sisters will invite you to come to our church. It is not so that we can serve you special punch and brainwash you lol Because we do not have all the answers. We are all learning. Someone like a Pastor or a Missionary would be much better suited to answer your questions- that is, in fact, their job. I am not a Pastor or a Missionary, which means that I am not qualified to preach. I have come here to try and share some of what I do know, but things backfired as questions were spilled out faster than I can blink. Again, I don't have a lot of time. My change in demeanor is something of dispair, because it makes me so sad to hear that you want me to answer all of these questions, (though I did invite questions) in a small amount of time, when I am underqualified to do so. Then rude or very assumptuous and offensive remarks are made, twisting my words, "translations" and so forth... That is extremely discouraging. It makes me worry for my own salvation, because there is still so much that I have to learn. I understand what you say about Paul preaching every day, but you have to understand that Paul was someone highly qualified to do that; wouldn't you say? I mean, he wrote many books of the Bible, and we follow them to this day. But I am not Paul, nor am I nearly as qualified, so I will again invite anyone with that many questions to seek a Church of God in your area so that they may be answered. Please, consider anything I say regarding the Bible and Christianity to be sharing what I have learned thus far, not preaching our religion.

Actually, I don't think that is the scripture I was referring to. A sister actually has mentioned it to me many times, so it stuck with me, but she never told me the chapter or verse. But it says something to the effect of "When you are persecuted, flee from that town, lest you fail to have reached the rest of the cities when I come." My point being that I do not want to waste any time here, when there might be someone somewhere else waiting to hear this truth. I am not saying that everyone on here isn't seeking answers. But truthfully, I think a lot of it is not so much seeking as it is instigating. But I'm sure you know exactly who I refer to. I would just like to say, Creasy, that I appreciate your patience with me infinitely, and that I am trying my best to be extremely humble. But it is so hard, especially for me- I have always been extremely opinionated, to the point where I've been kicked out of my house several times at a young age, stubborn, and very inclined to argue and fight. A "true taurus," one interested in astrology would say. But I am seeking to change my ways and I try a new approach at this every time I come back to this board, as I don't wish to follow the ways of man, but of Christ.
Also, regarding the smallest truth, something as simple as explaining the Sabbath day would move those brothers and sisters of Zion. But if you are not moved by that, then it is time to move on, for the seed has been planted with just that study, and if they are truly the children of God they will rise with the wheat in the last days, you know? Staying here to continue to try and do studies that I myself just learned is not going to be of benefit; I cannot continue on like this until you agree, because I do not know God's will and it may never be in his will for you to do so. In the same breath, it could be in years. But until I am ready to preach, I need to spend my time continuing to study and learn more. Also, just in a logical sense, it would make more sense for me to be well versed in a subject before I dedicate my life to teaching it, you know? What if, later down the road, I discovered that all of this was a lie (God forgive me). It would take me maybe twice, three times as long to come to that conclusion because I would have wasted so much of my time trying to teach, as opposed to learning. I believe that the seed has been sewn as it is. And I wish to let it grow, and see what comes of it.

I apologize for any statements I've made previously that have been rude, inconsiderate, and offensive. And I hope that in leading by example with humility, you may consider all that I have said in the past without the anger and passion that was included, and take it at plain face value. Also, I would like to clarify that my brothers and sisters probably have no given up. But consider this: In this world, there is God, and there is Satan. Through another bible study, regarding Babylon and Zion, you come to find that if it is not of God, it is against it. And if it is against God, it is of Satan, for he is always against the Most High. Therefore, a forum like this would be very intense for brothers and sisters of Zion, and just as you've pointed out- it can change you. I went from being pleasantly excited to angrilly excited, and that is no way for any Christian to behave or think. Ill will is not flattering, and it would make sense that they would leave this forum for the same reasons I mentioned in my last post, as well as the fact that it is- somewhat- corruption. Please understand that leaving this forum does not mean any of us have lost interest in the Bible. This forum has made me excited to the point where I would not go directly to church only that I may go home and respond. I made a choice between one or the two, because such a deeply engrossed debate is enough to consume a person like me, and I've chose church. Which in essense, means that I have increased my interest to explore the Bible, for that is exactly what I do at church. My passion, nor do I believe that of my brothers and sisters, has not been lost, but rather is has increased our passion for God for we realize what a difficult truth this is to accept, and we praise and give thanks every day for the blessing of being able to receive it now.

As for me, my seed has been sown, and I hope that you will all nurture and bloom in time. Until then, if you wish to ask as many questions as you would like, I humbly implore you to visit a Church of God, so that you may speak with someone who has the authority to answer all of your questions. I guarantee you, I will not have all of the answers. If you find that, speaking to a preacher or pastor, they do not have all of the answers, then I urge you- do leave! Because it would be a shame for someone to hold the title of Preacher, Pastor, or Missionary without being able to answer all of your questions. And you will find that this is the same for most brothers and sisters- even those who do the studies with newly baptized members and visitors- if you ask them a question they do not know, never will they try and give you their own answer, or tell you that is what it is without proof. They will always direct you to a pastor or missionary. God bless you Creasy, and the rest of you as well, and this experience has been spiritually filling for my soul believe it or not. Despite what you may assume, this has made my love for God increasingly rich, and I hope that this fragance of Zion will reach him and that he will spray multitudes of blessings upon you so that you may, one day, believe. (Amen.)

Thank you Another One Confused. You expressed so well what I feel. And when you mentioned the Church of Christ then I knew why.

Hi Creasy,

Of course I will be the one to take most of the heat for non offensive questions, I expect that.

However, I feel that I was not inconiderate to Yvonne and actually respected her belief by not refering to her church (COG) by any other name.

But hey, sometimes debates tend to get a little heated and I do admit that I am not the only one to "ruffle my feathers".

You've witnessed emotion and frustration happen on such a small scale in an online message board, imagine a real debate in an actual forum. The thinking about the disagreements and finger poiinting is enough, Yvonne showed some rational aspects but some people who aren't so rational could take it to another level. I'm sure you know as well it can grow into something bigger as a war. Not the COG (let me make that clear before I get heat from that)..but religions in general.


To Yvonne,

Again I say that my intentions were not to disrespect you personally in any way and my questions in the beginning were specifically about Ahnsahnghong and they were more rhetorical since most of what is said of him were stories designed to make him look good..well at least to me.

Things got a little out of hand as far as the Jesus not revealing himself comment that I made and I wish that I explained myself a little more about it. Actually I will..

You've pointed out scripture to me that shows Jesus revealing himself by refering to hismelf as "I AM". Which in that term you were correct but I was trying to say that he never walked around calling himself "The Son of God", it was his disciples and other people that were doing so and refered to him as that.

Jesus didn't technically reveal himself to people by calling himself titles, it was realy his miracles that revealed who he was.

Him walking to different towns and refering to himself as god wouldn't mean anything without the miracles that he performed.

From walking on water,(which was possibly a metaphor) healing people whether blind or sick, from turning water into wine, from feeding a crowd of people with bread and a small portion of fish and even down to casting out demons from people. That alone is proof that he says who is he.

Those miracles and probably others are what caused everyone that witnessed him to follow and believe him, not by him claiming to be this or that.

Without those miracles, he would be just another person claiming to be the messiah. People may have claim to be many times before at that time which is why the punishment was to be stoned.

So it wasn't who or what he refered to himself as, it was his actions/ miracles. Did he walk around and reveal himself as the Son of God, as far as I know he didn't.

If I'm wrong, just point it out. You too as well Creasy.

Well I could go on and on but I just wanted to say my piece in regards to how I am portrayed as annoying and inconsiderate.


Oh and Creasy,

It would be a good idea to take Yvonne's advice to speak with a preacher or deacon and bring your questions to them written down.


- James

Hi Yvone , thank you for your reply .

I am having a lot of trouble uploading to this site . I simply couldn't get through . I had written 7 point to you last night After I sent 4 of them I couldn't up load any more.

It just say "site error" ,it happen many times before.

But somehow it accept shorter messages. I am wondering if anyone has the same problem ?


Thank you


Creasy

Yvone,

I continue to admire your demeanor. Forgive me, but I need to clarify one item your church teaches that is incompatible with the Bible:

That salvation & eternal life only comes from partaking Passover at your church’s explicit time. What this belief implies is that “deeds” supersede what our heart truly feels. For instance, if I willfully lie, steel, or any other sin, but yet I have partaken in your church’s belief of a magical Passover, I am saved and have eternal life. I set forth an extreme example to prove a point; but anyone could easily utter they believe all your church teaching, but in their heart they don’t believe it. Can you say that that person is saved and has eternal life? I would reason to answer an unequivocal no.

John 2:23-25: “Now when he [Jesus] was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast [day], many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all [men], And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.”

If Jesus did not commit to these people, then, how do we know if we are truly saved?

2 Cor 5: 17: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

One more thing I will say is that if any one of us here belongs to an institution – irrespective whether it’s a religious one or not – that claims to have all the answer, please disassociate yourself as quickly as you can. All our inquiries will never be answered in this side of Heaven. So if your pastor, your president, your CEO of the company that employs you, claims to have all the answers, they are implicitly saying they know what God is thinking. And we all know that such is an impossibility.

As I stated on a previous post, I hope to God that He opens your heart to His truth.

God bless.

hi Yvone ,

I continue to have trouble uploading my messages.

I suggest we move to www.crosswalk.com to continue our discussion .

In the crosswalk Forum ,there is already a Topic discussing about the Church of God.

They seems to have a better structure there.

Easier to locate a topic and easier to read .

Would you consider continue our discussion over there.

Just go to http://forums.crosswalk.com/ stroll down under "Theology" ,and enter the third sub-forum , under "Church".

The topic is : Anyone Know this "Church of God from Korea ?"

It will just let a minute to register.


God bless ,good luck


Creasy

Creasy -

There may be a limit to the length of a post to prevent spammers. You will just have to post shorter.

[To James:

I understand that, and nor were my intentions to disrespect you, but I believe it has happened on both our parts, and for that I am sorry. A topic as passionate as religion can become heated, and sometimes we forget to be humble. As for your questions being rhetorical, I personally feel that if a question has an answer- rhetorical or not- it should be answered. I also wasn't aware that they were rhetorical. But all of that is in the past. I cannot prove his history to you, and I'm sorry for that. But faith is not all proof. As for Jesus revealing himself, again I cannot prove anything to you concerning Christ Ahnsahnghong, so I honestly can't tell you if he did or did not reveal himself or how he did so. Regardless, calling himself the Son of God is more of an understatement than I am, which denotes that he is God himself; not just the son. Still, Jesus has made it clear that the Son of Man is the Son of God in the following scripture:]

John 5
25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

[Also, Jesus did not gain the faith of his followers through miracles- as far as my understanding goes. There were many astrologers and mystics that could "perform miracles." In the Bible God even said that there will be men that will perform miracles, but do not follow him. Jesus said that the scriptures will testify to his divinity. This scripture is after the ressurection of Jesus.]

Luke 24
23 When they did not find His body, they came saying that they had also seen a vision of angels who said He was alive.
24 And certain of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said; but Him they did not see.”
25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?”
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

[That is the end of that section. In the New King James version, the title is "The Disciples' Eyes Opened"]

[This next scripture shows that Paul, who I think we recognize as a true follower of Christ, did the same.]

Act 17
7 Jason has harbored them, and these are all acting contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying there is another king—Jesus.”
8 And they troubled the crowd and the rulers of the city when they heard these things.
9 So when they had taken security from Jason and the rest, they let them go.
Ministering at Berea
10 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men.

[This next scripture is Jesus explaining what bears witness to him- as in, what will prove that he is God.]

John 5
36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.
37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

[He says it is the works which his father has given him to finish (as in prophecies), the very works that he does (fulfilling them by riding in on a donkey, etc.) He also says God himself has testified about him, but not by hearing his voice (But the old testament, which is the word of God) or seeing him. He even plainly says that the scriptures testify about him. This next scripture is incredible.]

Matthew 24
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it.
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

[Jesus says that false christs and prophets will rise and perform miracles to deceive. He also compares his second coming to lightning, coming from the east and flashing to the west. I haven't been told this, but to me it seems that this is a prophecy Christ Ahnsahnghong has fulfilled. Coming from the east, like lightning (how fast, it you blink it's so easy to miss it! You will definitely see the light it emits, but you may not the bolt itself) to the west... I don't know if you know anything concerning our church, but it spread to the west incredibly fast. I hope that this will shed some light. For now, please do not ask me anymore questions until I have answered everyone elses, that way it doesn't look like I've run away. It's just so hard to answer everyone, when there are so many answers and much proof through the scriptures regarding certain things. I hope that you will take this time to digest what I've said, as well as find something that contradicts that, and I will invite you to ask your questions at the end of my next post]

To Creasy:

I haven't had that same problem. I would like to say it is much more convenient for me to keep to this forum, because moving to another forum will add many many more questions for me to answer and as it is I am struggling to keep up. But you are free to invite anyone here, as long as they have the understanding that there is a line, so to speak lol. I want to answer these questions, I do, and even though I said I would not, I see that you are truly interested in hearing what I have to say and it has moved me to stay. But I will apologize if it takes me a while to respond sometimes, because I do not always have the opportunity to respond at work. Still, I think of all of this as a great chance for me to review what I have learned, like continuation of Bible study, and I hope that speaking here and answering questions here will make me more capable and knowledgable of questions that might be posed to preach when I am ready to take on that responsibility. So I thank you infinitely for allowing me this opportunity, and convincing me to stay with your understanding words. Bear with me James, not ready for your questions yet. Also, keep in mind, if there is something I did not answer above, feel free to remind me. I am trying to be more organized about this than last time, and your patience will definitely help. God bless you.

( Hi Yvone , thank you for your reply . I will continue send the second part of this piece to you first . And I will respond to the piece you just sent later .) #5. Sister Yvone , you said , My top priority is my salvation ! Why should I give up my salvation and my time , for this debate will never end? *** Where do you get the idea ,sharing God's word will make you lose your Salvation ?

To Creasy:

That was a bit of a rushed statement, but to explain myself, we do not believe that Passover is the only key to salvation, though it is essential (I am writing an explanation concerning that right now, and will post when I'm done). There is much more to do as well, and I do not know all of what is to be done. So if I am coming home to reply as opposed to going to church and utilizing all my free time to study these things, I am losing valuable time to study all what I should do in order to please God, especially seeing as this discussion is very time consuming on all of our behalves.

#6.
Sister Yvone ,Please take as much time as you need to answer the question . We are gladly await for your reply.

In 1 Peter 3 :15 , the Bible says :
" Be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride; "

In 1 Peter 3 :15 ,the Bible says, Christians are require to answer people's question.

The scripture not only say Christians need to answer question , but we need to do it in a nice and humble manner too.

In 1 Peter 3: 15 the Bible says ,
"To give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;"

--------------------

In conclusion I would like to tell you , I have a lot of respect for the people of the Church of God.

I admire your dedication and your loyalty to your Church .

[To Another Confused:

I appreciate your admiration, but all glory and thanks must be given to God. I hope that we can all thank him for allowing us to have this discussion, so that his truth may emerge- whatever it is- and that he will see our struggle to know him. As for the Passover, I was told today at church that everything links back to the Passover, which is funny that your question should be concerning that. And thank God for that, for I also had the opportunity to help a brother practice his preaching of the False Idols study, which in turn allows me to answer your question a little better than I could before. The key to eternal life is, in fact, the Passover. There are other commandments that God wants us to keep- all of them, in fact- but without the Passover salvation cannot be granted. I don't know if you were told otherwise, but as far as I am aware that is not the case at all. There are some brothers and sisters that do not believe, but as for me I can say that I do. There have been some doubts in my mind at some time, but continuing to study the scriptures confirms everything (as it did to those who heard them from Jesus, in the scriptures I posted to James above) which is a blessing and the greatest miracle of all (Amen.) We cannot tell you that you are saved or that you have salvation by our own words. But according to scripture, the Passover is essential. I will take this time now to explain to you how I know this.]

[If you believe that keeping the 10 commandments is necessary, then I will say in that same breath that so is the passover, for it is- in actuality- the first commandment. This scripture is regarding the first celebration of Passover:]

Exodus 12
12 "On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn—both men and animals—and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD.

[As you can see, God was doing a few things that night. 1) He would come by a kill the first born of the Egyptians, for persecuting the Jews- his chosen people. 2) He said he would strike down every first born in Egypt (not just Egyptians, but the Jewish and even the animals) that did not celebrate the passover, because if they did not celebrate the Passover then they do not believe in him, for he told them to. 3) He said he will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. Through the Passover, he brought judgement on all the gods of Egypt. It can be said that through this specific passover, he allowed our eyes to be opened their eyes to the fact that he is the one and only God. In 2 Kings chapter 22, the prophetess Huldah explained to King Josiah that God was bringing disaster because they were celebrating false Gods. After hearing this, King Josiah is determined to renew the covenant.]

2 Kings 23
1 Then the king called together all the elders of Judah and Jerusalem.
2 He went up to the temple of the LORD with the men of Judah, the people of Jerusalem, the priests and the prophets—all the people from the least to the greatest. He read in their hearing all the words of the Book of the Covenant, which had been found in the temple of the LORD.
3 The king stood by the pillar and renewed the covenant in the presence of the LORD -to follow the LORD and keep his commands, regulations and decrees with all his heart and all his soul, thus confirming the words of the covenant written in this book. Then all the people pledged themselves to the covenant.

[The verses between the above and the below describe how King Josiah tore down all of the shrines and altars to other Gods and things that were obviously not to God. In the next verse, he celebrates the Passover:]

21 Then the king commanded all the people, saying, “Keep the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in this Book of the Covenant.”
22 Such a Passover surely had never been held since the days of the judges who judged Israel, nor in all the days of the kings of Israel and the kings of Judah.
23 But in the eighteenth year of King Josiah this Passover was held before the LORD in Jerusalem.
24 Moreover Josiah put away those who consulted mediums and spiritists, the household gods and idols, all the abominations that were seen in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.

[After celebrating the Passover, King Josiah goes on to disperse mediums and spiritists. These people are not clearly against God. They were supposed to be mediums between God/The heavenly realm and man, but he saw the idolotry in that only after celebrating the Passover. This next passage concerns]

2 Chronicles 30
1 And Hezekiah sent to all Israel and Judah, and also wrote letters to Ephraim and Manasseh, that they should come to the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, to keep the Passover to the LORD God of Israel.
2 For the king and his leaders and all the assembly in Jerusalem had agreed to keep the Passover in the second month.
3 For they could not keep it at the regular time [The first day of the first month of Nisan], because a sufficient number of priests had not consecrated themselves, nor had the people gathered together at Jerusalem.
4 And the matter pleased the king and all the assembly.
5 So they resolved to make a proclamation throughout all Israel, from Beersheba to Dan, that they should come to keep the Passover to the LORD God of Israel at Jerusalem, since they had not done it for a long time in the prescribed manner.

[From this scripture we can see that keeping the Passover was also important to King Hezekiah, but not always, and keeping it accordingly as well. However, they could not keep it at the appointed time for the aforementioned reasons- not just because they felt like doing it on another day- and thus God saw this and was pleased. After Passover and celebrating the entire Feast of Unleavened Bread, in the same chapter, this is what happened:]

25 The whole assembly of Judah rejoiced, also the priests and Levites, all the assembly that came from Israel, the sojourners who came from the land of Israel, and those who dwelt in Judah.
26 So there was great joy in Jerusalem, for since the time of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel, there had been nothing like this in Jerusalem.
27 Then the priests, the Levites, arose and blessed the people, and their voice was heard; and their prayer came up to His holy dwelling place, to heaven.

[Clearly God heard their prayer, being pleased with their actions. In the next chapter, which is directly following the last verse posted, suddenly they begin to remove false idols and Gods.]

2 Chronicles 31
1 Now when all this was finished, all Israel who were present went out to the cities of Judah and broke the sacred pillars in pieces, cut down the wooden images, and threw down the high places and the altars—from all Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim, and Manasseh—until they had utterly destroyed them all. Then all the children of Israel returned to their own cities, every man to his possession.

[The passover opened their eyes to their true God, allowing them to see all that was evil and remove it. This next passage is a testimony to the necessity of keeping God's commandments.]

Deuteronomy 6
4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!
5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.
7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.
8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

[You shall bind this command, whatever it is, as a sign on your hand and between your eyes, to remember. Let's confirm that this command is the Passover.]

Exodus 13
3 And Moses said to the people: “Remember this day in which you went out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out of this place. No leavened bread shall be eaten.

[Then it goes on to regulate the old covenant Passover. There is a deeper study concerning the parallel between Moses leading the Jews and Jesus Christ leading Christians. To give you a brief overview (though understand there is more detail and testimony to this), God is as Jesus. The Jews are Christians today. Egypt- where the Jews were slaves- is sin, which Christians (everyone, really) are slaves to now. The night before God (through Moses) lead the Jews out of Egypt, he made them celebrate the Passover (according to the old covenant). Likewise, the night before Jesus was crucified (which was the for the remission of our sins, according to Jesus in Matthew 26:28) he made us celebrate the Passover (of the new covenant). There is a lot more to that parallel that matches up with periods of time but that is a long, in depth study that I will not go into because there is so much more to touch that confirms this. That is why I say the more you study, the more you will believe, for it is not just one verse that leads us to believe this, but many. But back to the scripture. The next passage is still in reference to the Passover:]

Exodus 13
9 It shall be as a sign to you on your hand and as a memorial between your eyes, that the LORD’s law may be in your mouth; for with a strong hand the LORD has brought you out of Egypt.
10 You shall therefore keep this ordinance in its season from year to year.

[God has used nearly the exact same words regarding the Passover, in this verse, and this mysterious- but very important- commandment he mentioned in Deuteronomy 6. Also, God said that you shall keep Passover in it's season (as in, at it's appointed time) from year to year. Not just until the messiah comes. Not just until the messiah is crucified. And the messiah himself, Jesus Christ, celebrated the Passover as we know from Matthew 26:26, and he also said that he did not come to abolish the law (that is, the order of Aaron- which includes Passover) but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17) Also, just before God gives Moses the 10 commandments, he emphasizes again that he has brought them out of "the house of bondage."]

Exodus 20
1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 [1/10] "You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 [2/10]“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

[Note that you shall have no other gods before me and you shall not worship idols are two separate commandments. Actually, the Catholic Encyclopedia has combined the first two commandments into one:

1) Being the one true God, He alone is to be adored, and all rendering to creatures of the worship which belongs to Him falls under the ban of His displeasure; the making of "graven things" is condemned: not all pictures, images, and works of art, but such as are intended to be adored and served (First).

2) Associated with God in the minds of men and representing Him, is His Holy Name, which by the Second Commandment is declared worthy of all veneration and respect and its profanation reprobated.

[They happened to separate the two in order to add their own tenth commandment regarding property rights. Can someone from the Catholic church explain this? Is the tenth commandment and the seventh commandment (according to Catholic Encylopedia) not the same? If not, please explain the difference, and why this tenth commandment was added? And why does the Catholic version of the ten commandments suddenly say not all pictures, images, and works of art? God said any likeness of anything that is in heaven above. I'm sorry to get sidetracked, but this is a huge thing that not many people are aware of. Their church is full of idols... Why do they change God's law? According to Revelations 22:18-19, this is not exactly OK with God. Agh, I digress, I apologize, back to my main point. What I was trying to demonstrate earlier before I got sidetracked was the fact that God wants us to remember the Passover. The next passage is titled "Impending Judgment on Earth" according to the New King James version]

Isaiah 24:
1 Behold, the LORD makes the earth empty and makes it waste,
Distorts its surface
And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
2 And it shall be:
As with the people, so with the priest;
As with the servant, so with his master;
As with the maid, so with her mistress;
As with the buyer, so with the seller;
As with the lender, so with the borrower;
As with the creditor, so with the debtor.
3 The land shall be entirely emptied and utterly plundered,
For the LORD has spoken this word.
4 The earth mourns and fades away,
The world languishes and fades away;
The haughty people of the earth languish.
5 The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants,
Because they have transgressed the laws,
Changed the ordinance,
Broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore the curse has devoured the earth,
And those who dwell in it are desolate.
Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned,
And few men are left.

[Through this passage, we see that everyone is dying- even priests. You see the contrast in those who do good deeds and those who do bad, but they all will perish in the last days. It says only a few men are left (perhaps the 144,000? Compared to 6.something billion, I would say that is a small amount). The world is ending because we have sinned, changed the laws (we think we don't have to keep Saturday sabbath, but Constantine changed that law in 321 AD, not God or Jesus), and we broke the everlasting covenant. Let's confirm through the Bible what the everlasting covenant is:]

John 6
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed.
56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.
58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

[As you can see, Passover gives us eternal life. If we take Passover, God will raise us up in the last day. So if that's true, then we will be raised up at the last day (judgment day), which means that we did not 1) sinned (baptism cleanses us of our sins, along with sincere prayer for forgiveness of those sins and refraining from repeatedly sinning) 2) changed the ordinance (most people today haven't, they just follow the new laws, which is a sin) 3) broken the everlasting covenant. Thus, passover must be one of these three things. But Jesus never said that Passover forgave us for our sins, nor did he say that it forgave us for changing the laws. That is because Passover is the everlasting covenant, and in these last days, how many people do you know keep it, as well as the rest of his commands?]

But let's look at another scripture to confirm 100% that it is the covenant he speaks of.]

Matthew 26
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”
27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

[The new covenant is the Passover. Please, don't misunderstand, the crucifixion itself is not the new covenant. He says eat my flesh and drink my blood of the new covenant- my blood is shed for many the remission of sins. It is the death of Jesus that put the new covenant into effect.]

Hebrews 9
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.”
21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission. [of sins]

[Only a few will be keeping the Passover in the last days. Brothers and sisters of Zion are desperately trying to get our lost brothers and sisters to see this truth, which is why we try and teach and study and invite people to come to our church. It certainly doesn't benefit us. I don't think we would have any more members if we were getting paid 100 dollars per person that we brought got baptized. We are all struggling, for your benefit, and for ours, for it is said that when God's children have all been found, the end will come, and we will be with our Elohim God in Heaven once again. I hope that all of this is incredibly clear. I know it is a lot to go through, but I just combined like 3-4 different detailed studies into one big explanation. I apologize for that, but I hope that you will carefully consider everything I've said and truly look at it, because we are so blessed to hear this truth, and even more blessed is he who understands it (Amen.)]

[Regarding John 2:23-25, I believe Jesus did not commit to these people because they believed in him according to the miracles which he did, and not the scriptures which he used to testify about himself. There is no way to say we are truly saved or not, but all we be revealed Judgment day. Regarding 2 Corinithians 5:17, I am not sure what exactly you are trying to say. If you would like to clarify, and somehow relate that scripture to what you have said below it, I would greatly appreciate it. Regarding what you said below: If it was my birthday and I had a party, who would you ask about it? Myself. But, say you could not contact me, you would probably ask someone who attended the party. Likewise, Christ Anhsahnhong came and revealed so many truths to us through the scriptures. Because he has ascended and is no longer with us, his disciples would be whom you would ask. His disciples have spread the gospel, so that the church may grow and spread, so that we may have those truths. It is not such a scary idea to know that God has given us all the answers. Especially if these answers are proven through the scripture- which are the very words of God and his disciples. If they have all of the answers, then they must be God. Christ Ahnsahnghong and Mother Jerusalem have all of the answers. Unfortunately, one of the two is no longer here with us. The other, you may never meet to ask. But understand that the word has been passed down, and our brothers and sisters always try and explain that anything they preach is not their own words, but that of our heavenly Father. That is why we use the Bible to confirm such- because it is a widespread belief among Christians that the Bible is the word of our father. By being able to understand these truths that are studied at Church, I feel that I have been infinitely blessed with the truth, and through that truth my heart has been opened up to him- Christ Ahnsahnghong, Jesus, and God Jehova (none of which I really believed in before I came to this church)]

P.S. Also, defining "everlasting covenant"- as in a covenant that shall remain, or be everlasting. Passover shall remain from old to new. Jesus celebrated the Passover always, even though this was an old covenant tradition. But Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill. Not to mention we were told to remember it from year to year.

And James (and anyone else with questions), you are going to have to wait for Creasy to finish his 7 part post and for me to answer it; I wasn't aware there was more, but it didn't post for him, so I apologize. Anyone else with questions, please wait until I have answered James. I'm sorry, but as you can see by the length of my quotes (and the fact that it is 2:30 in the morning!) I have a lot to say and I want to say it all for God's glory, but it takes time because my notes are ridiculously messy and I didn't title the pages. Note to self: Do so at work tomorrow lol.

God bless you all, and good night (or morning, seeing as I'll be up again in about 4 hours)

And Creasy, thank you again for your patience and I will try my best to answer everything in due time. I also thank you for your respect, and I appreciate it because it helps me to remain humble and patient as well.

Hi Sister Yvone,

I still do not understand why do you call "the Lord's Supper " as Passover ?

In 1 Corinthians 11 : 20 it was clear referred to as "the Lord's Supper".

The Bible called it " "the Lord's Supper" ,to make less confusing shouldn't we all call it "the Lord's Supper" ? After all it is how the Bible call it ?

And why your church insist it is Greatest SIN to keep " the Lord's Supper" more than once a year ?

I think it is very odd that some Church of God member get very emotional, they accuses the Christians of not keeping the "the Lord's Supper" (Passover).

But as the matter of fact, Christians do keep the " the Lord's Supper" ,so I totally don't understand why the people from the Church of God getting so upset ???

It is so wired to see them getting so mad for nothing !

To be continue ..

Hi Sister Yvone,

As I asked you a question earlier :

You mentioned, under the "New Covenant " not Jewish custom , we are required to keep special days or festivals in order to receive God's Salvation.

I have found all the scriptures in the Bible that mentioned the word "New Covenant" , and no where did it suggest God want His people to keep any special days or festivals for Salvation.

Where do you get the idea that God want us to keep all these Days and Festivals under the "New Covenant" ?

You said it is God's teaching , but I couldn't find such teaching in the Bible . Would you care to explain it to me , please ?

And please take your time , no hurry !

( To Everyone else ,please be respectful and do not mock them anymore ! )

Thank you

Creasy

[Hello Creasy,

I would like to first of all give thanks to God for allowing me to get to work so early, so that I may answer your questions. Also, the fact that I will be here alone for a while, which gives me more time. Unfortunately, I do not recall any verses recited to me expressing the important of referring to this breaking of bread and this drinking of wine (as Jesus' flesh and blood) as the Passover. But I will ask someone at church when I go today, so that I can tell you.

Aside from that, is it safe to say that we see the importance of keeping this- whether we call it The Lord's Supper or Passover? If not, please explain why, and please use scripture to testify to that (though I'm sure you will, as you have been). I personally do not believe that it was called the Lord's Supper to distinguish it from Passover. If that were the case, Jesus would have used the term himself. I believe that the disciples used the term because it is the Lord's supper; as Jesus said do not go for the food that spoils, but that which is everlasting (John 6:27- This scripture also testifies). Jesus, before the "Last Supper," refers to it as the Passover in the following scripture:]

Matthew 26
17 Now on the first day of the Feast of the Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, "Where do You want us to prpeppare for You to eat the Passover?"
18 And He said, "Go into the city to a certain man, and say to him, "The Teacher says, 'My time is at hand; I will keep the Passover at your house with My disciples,'"
19 So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them; and they prepared the Passover.

[As you can see, the disciples referred to it as the Passover. Then Jesus himself said that he was going to keep the Passover, and directly after he celebrated "The Lord's Supper." Thus, they must be the same event. However, Jesus- before, during, or after this celebration, did not refer to it as The Lord's Supper. Also, please note that the Passover (or the Lord's Supper, what have you) was never celebrated at any given time, but at it's appointed time. If you can find me scripture saying otherwise, where it was celebrated at some other time, I would appreciate it. But aside from all of that, is July 4th still Independence Day if you light fireworks and barbecue on the fourth of each month? How about if you light fireworks and barbecue on May 21? Most people would say no, because Indepence has an appointed time. However this time was appointed by man. How then, can we stick so true to man's appointed times, but not God's? For everytime Jesus celebrated the Passover, was it not on the 14 day of the 1st month? And isn't Christ our best example? Is that not what it means to be a Christian? Matthew 26: 17 (which is posted above) states that they did so at the appointed time.]

Mark 14
12 Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover lamb, His disciples said to Him, “Where do You want us to go and prepare, that You may eat the Passover?”
13 And He sent out two of His disciples and said to them, “Go into the city, and a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him.
14 Wherever he goes in, say to the master of the house, ‘The Teacher says, “Where is the guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?”’
15 Then he will show you a large upper room, furnished and prepared; there make ready for us.”
16 So His disciples went out, and came into the city, and found it just as He had said to them; and they prepared the Passover.

[This scripture is the exact same time, according to the gospel of Mark. Note that Passover is still what they called it, and it was at it's appointed time. According to the gospel of Luke, it was Passover again.]

1 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called Passover.
2 And the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might kill Him, for they feared the people.

[The verses in between speak of Satan and his plot to kill Jesus through Judas]

7 Then came the Day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover must be killed.
8 And He sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover for us, that we may eat.”
9 So they said to Him, “Where do You want us to prepare?”
10 And He said to them, “Behold, when you have entered the city, a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him into the house which he enters.
11 Then you shall say to the master of the house, ‘The Teacher says to you, “Where is the guest room where I may eat the Passover with My disciples?”
12 Then he will show you a large, furnished upper room; there make ready.”
13 So they went and found it just as He had said to them, and they prepared the Passover.
14 When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve apostles with Him.
15 Then He said to them, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer;
16 for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”

[Jesus, in three of the four gospels, called it the Passover. In Zero of three did he ever call it the Lord's Supper. Also, I did a keyword search on BibleGateway.com for The Lord's Supper in the New King James version. Nothing in the actual scripture came up in the entire Bible. I also did a search for The Last Supper. Again, nothing. I did a search for the same things in the New International Version. For the Lord's Supper, nothing came up except for the one reference in Corinthians 11:20, which Paul uses to reference the Passover. However he goes on to say that he is passing on to us what he has received from the Lord. He does not mention, in that same breath, that the Passover is to be called The Lord's Supper, but rather that is what he called it.]

[The following scripture is Jesus explaining things to come in the last days.]

Matthew 24
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.
5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.
10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

[The gospel will be preached in all the world and then the end will come. But as you know the Bible is all over the world, as is Christianity. But if Christianity as we know it was preaching the true gospel, then this would be the end of the world. But unfortunately, we are still here. Brothers and sisters of the Church of God are dedicating their lives- giving up their jobs, giving up their free time- to preach the gospel which was given to us by Christ Ahnsahnghong. He has allowed us to see this great truth, but the end will not come until it has reached all the world.]

[The Passover and it's importance as the seal of God is a very emotional subject. Any command which God has given us, which people fail to see or ignore, should move any Christian, because we are to love everyone and in our love for everyone we want the world to know that Passover will save them in the last days. Passover, celebrated the correct way, at the specific time and date appointed by God. The Passover is not something that can just be celebrated whenever we feel like it, as I have explained above. It can be very frustrating, and at times it makes me want to cry because I wish all of my brothers and sisters could see that, and through that the love that God has for us. Hopefully all will happen in time, for God's will is divine. Until then, I will continue to share this truth which I have been blessed to receive, God willing (amen.) I will answer your second post in a second post of my own, after this. Futhermore, I would like to to the study of the Hidden Manna with you, so that I may further confirm the importance of Passover, if that is OK with you.]

Creasy,

Concerning the new covenant to be all days and feasts, that was actually a mistake on my behalf, and I apologize. It is mistakes like these that lead to confusion, and that is why I do not like to preach until I have studied more, because I want to be 100% confident. The correction of that statement is: the new covenant is the passover. I happened to have the opportunity to pick up General Pastor's sermon book last night at church, which is an honor really, and in it the new covenant is simply the Passover. We keep the feasts to commemorate different events from the old testament, (remember the parallel to Moses leading the Jews out of Egypt and Jesus leading us out of this sinful world which I mentioned before? This long, detailed study explains exactly why we keep these feasts, though it is not of the new covenant). I cannot go over the study with you concerning the feasts because I myself have no completed the study. But you are free to go to a church and ask, and they can give you ever detail concerning why (though I would definitely set aside the day for that one). But, again, I would like to study with you the Hidden Manna, another amazing truth given to us by God (Amen.) But first, I am curious to know what your understanding of the new covenant, in contrast to ours, and how you have come to this conclusion. Also, any replies or response to my previous answer are welcome as well. God bless you, and I thank God for giving me this opportunity to review my studies and clarify them within myself. All praise be to Holy Jerusalem Mother and Christ Ahnsahnghong (Amen.) God bless you.

I am a new studier of the Bible. Isn't most of the scriptures you quoted above in the Old Testament and aren't they directed to God's people the Jews? Isn't the Passover a Jewish celebration? Isn't there more than just Bread and Wine in the Passover? The more I study the more I don't understand. Anyone who can answer please do. Thank you.

God bless!!! Wow, what a beautiful blessing. I actually was just reading the skepticism forum and Brother Ken Le found this scripture from the new testament which I didn't even know about, concerning Passover and keeping it now, which is an absolute blessing that you should ask me this question, because now I have a reason to post it! Not to say that I wasn't going to anyway lol

1 Corinthians 5
6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Amen!

Yvone,

Thank you kindly for your detailed response. And, by the way, excellent treatise. Concerning the Passover, I will not debate the veracity of the Scriptures to prove your point. My objective is not to discount the importance of Passover (partly in accordance with your belief, it is quite relevant), but merely to point that we the Gentiles are not required to keep this particular Law (and many other ones of the Old Testament). In short, Passover is for Jews only. But before I present you Scriptural evidence as to why this is the case, I must rectify a statement you made.

You stated: “The Jews are Christians today. Egypt- where the Jews were slaves- is sin, which Christians (everyone, really) are slaves to now.”

If I understand correctly, you claim that Christians are slaves to sin. This is not true. Please refer to Romans 6:17-23: “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things [is] death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”

Concerning Passover, you failed to include a very important Scripture of Exodus Chapter 12 that will defunct your proposition. As you know, this Chapter exudes the requirement of Passover. Exodus 12:48-49 state: “And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.”

Unless an individual is Jewish, he/she should not partake in the Passover. Some claim that Gentiles are “spiritual” Jews, but in the flesh and blood they are not. The Jews are special people in God’s eyes; this is irrefutable. Again, Gentiles are not Jews; therefore we are not bound to keep all tenets of the Law of Moses. When Jesus partook in Passover, He always did it with His fellow Jews; no Gentile ever participated, please look it up for yourself.

Lastly, with regards to 1 Cor 5:6-8, before a discussion can begin, let us agree on the meaning of Passover. It commemorates the exodus of the Jews from Egypt. Simply put, the Jews were freed from captivity and free to worship the one and true God (certainly a book can be written on the significance of this exodus, but I am simplifying to keep this composition as short as possible). Jesus’ sacrifice is the Gentile’s Passover; that is, He died to pay our debt and liberate us from sin and death. The Jews in Egypt had to sacrifice a lamb and put blood in their door so that the spirit of death passed over (hence the word Passover) them. In so doing, the Jews escaped death. See the connection? This is the comparison and what Paul intends to bring into mind in 1 Cor 5:6-8. Please read the entire Chapter 5, not just the aforementioned verses.

In conclusion, there is only one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ (2 Timothy 2:5). Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20). I am sorry to be so blunt, but ahnsahnghong is not Christ nor are there explicit and conclusive Scripture to support the notion of mother Jerusalem. Pardon the redundancy, but there is no explicit and conclusive (beyond a shadow of a doubt) of your church’s Christ and mother in the Bible. None. As i mentioned in a previous post, any Scriptural claim supporting such view is tenuous at best.

May God show you His truth. God bless you.

To be continue…

Yvone,

Forgive me, but there is another one of your statements that warrant correction:

You wrote: “’27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.’”…
I haven't been told this, but to me it seems that this is a prophecy Christ Ahnsahnghong has fulfilled. Coming from the east, like lightning (how fast, it you blink it's so easy to miss it! You will definitely see the light it emits, but you may not the bolt itself) to the west...”

For a moment, Let us translate in layman wording verse 27: Jesus will come like the lightning that flashes from east to west.

This sentence is an analogy; in other words, it represents a similarity between like features of two things (this is how the dictionary defines analogy). What are the two things? Jesus’ return & lightning. What are the like features? Unexpected, not knowing exactly when, etc.

Now look at you wrote. You have changed the structured of the sentence to yield what you want it to mean, not what verse actually says. You moved the words around as to make “coming from the east” a requirement, which is not the case. Your sentence now says: Jesus will come from the east like lightning. Again, this is not what the verse says.

God bless you.

Hello Yvone ,

Thank you for your reply ,

I just want to let you I am reading your posting, and I will give you my feedback ( and some answers ) ASAP.

Please take care of yourself ,and don't stay up so late every night .

You said you go to Church every night ,that's incredible .

I hope you won't neglect your health ,or your family .
-------------------
You spent so much time in Church, you must really care about your relationship with God.

In my experience ,I need to slow down my life before I can be close to God.

If I didn't prepare myself to a peaceful state of mind, I wouldn't be able to hear God's voice.
--------------------
One of my favorite scripture is Isaiah 30:15
"This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it." NIV version
--------------------

Contrary to what most would think , Gods Grace and Deliverance is not a frenzy of activity as though it were an ambulance ride. The scriptures here speak of four attributes of our Strength in Salvation by God:

The COGs get all the more panicked the moment they hear of wars or disasters. My brother told me to get ready when it was the tsunami, bird flu, katrina and now N.Korea's nuclear test. All the pastors have told to spread the message that the time is near.
So obviously they are overworking day and night for this church. I hope this does not drive him insane.
Where family is concerned they do not need to care about anyone.
When one has a broken marriage with no kids or responsibilities like my brother will proudly say that I am the happiest man after joining this church.

Returning
God is our refuge ,He want us to return to him and unload all our burden to him.

Rest
We need to rest in God

Quietness
When we have given up our busy rushing life style, we will feel an overwhelming quietness, a peace that passed all understanding. Its wonderful, we should all yearn for this Quietness of God.